Thinking of using Veg-oil ?

[Hawaii]

Don't want to upset anyone but a m8 of mine works for one of the major insurers (his firm insures my surf - no discount though!)

He says that if you are using SVO (or WVO) in your truck and you haven't declared it to your insurer (apparently it's a non-standard modification) your insurance may be void. As far as his company is concerned they don't always increase the premium even if you declare SVO/WVO - depends on what other mods are included (heat exchagers etc.)

He has been called in to examine a few recent cases of potential write-offs (not in surfs though, but in another large unit imported jap 4x4 - no clues but the name rhymes with flitsubishi wajero) and the insurance companies have refused to pay out as they were running on undelared veg oil (although in both cases the owner was correctly registered with C & E and paying their duty)

just a word or warning

hope this helps

ta

hawaii

[CaptainBeaky]

Don't want to upset anyone but a m8 of mine works for one of the major insurers (his firm insures my surf - no discount though!)

He says that if you are using SVO (or WVO) in your truck and you haven't declared it to your insurer (apparently it's a non-standard modification) your insurance may be void. As far as his company is concerned they don't always increase the premium even if you declare SVO/WVO - depends on what other mods are included (heat exchagers etc.)

He has been called in to examine a few recent cases of potential write-offs (not in surfs though, but in another large unit imported jap 4x4 - no clues but the name rhymes with flitsubishi wajero) and the insurance companies have refused to pay out as they were running on undelared veg oil (although in both cases the owner was correctly registered with C & E and paying their duty)

just a word or warning

hope this helps

ta

hawaii

Well, what a surprise! Another excuse for the inn-sewer-ants companies not to pay out. Quite what running on veg-oil or not has to do with any accident completely escapes me...

[mamadwyvin]

Veg Oil in Herefordshire

After finding that the evil C&E boys are cracking down and I cannot pay the lower rate of duty without being tied up in knots I found my local provider. If you live in the area PLEASE SUPPORT THEM!

www.longma.co.uk

We are running v30 with no mods. (Got up to V60 in the good weather). The old gal coughs a bit on start, smells like a chippy but is running further and cheaper on a tank WOO HOO!

Am off to call the insurers, will let you know what they say.....thanks for the tip off!

Nx

[wasp132]

Don't want to upset anyone but a m8 of mine works for one of the major insurers (his firm insures my surf - no discount though!)

He says that if you are using SVO (or WVO) in your truck and you haven't declared it to your insurer (apparently it's a non-standard modification) your insurance may be void. As far as his company is concerned they don't always increase the premium even if you declare SVO/WVO - depends on what other mods are included (heat exchagers etc.)

He has been called in to examine a few recent cases of potential write-offs (not in surfs though, but in another large unit imported jap 4x4 - no clues but the name rhymes with flitsubishi wajero) and the insurance companies have refused to pay out as they were running on undelared veg oil (although in both cases the owner was correctly registered with C & E and paying their duty)

just a word or warning

hope this helps

ta

hawaii

surely this is only a problem if you're using veg oil and have a seperate tank and a split-input fuel filter? if you use the bio fuel from forecourt pumps you aren't making any modifications to the vehicle.
the diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil in the first place but the oil barons didn't like it

[Morr]

Some owners have experienced a drop in economy when using veg-oil, the following may offer an insight as to why this might be...

The calorific value of Vegetable oils is around 37,000 kJ/kg, whilst Diesel is around 42,000kJ/kg.

This means that Diesel has around 10% higher calorific content per kg, however the rate and measurement of your engines consumption is by volume not weight.

The density of veg-oils is up to 10% higher than Diesel, so the weight of oil consumed is higher than diesel for the same volume, this means the the calorific content available from veg-oil is higher when measured volumetrically, and should be nearly equal to that of Diesel.

A very small loss of energy by volume can be expected, however this is only slight, and should be in the order of 5% at most.

This can therefore translate into a potential drop in economy of up to 5%. This is however assuming a switch to 100% veg-oil. Use of a 50% mix would therefore yield an increase in consumption of up to 2.5%. On a vehicle returning 25mpg, this works out at 0.625mpg worse off, this should hardly be noticeable, and far outweighed by the environmental and monetary savings.
Personally, when I first starting using veg-oil I was keeping records of my fuel consumption and could detect no difference whatsoever.

Other factors can also come into play, comparing energy content is really only relevant if both fuels are to be burned under ideal conditions. Considering the modern compression ignition engine has been tuned to burn fossil fuels, it will therefore offer an injection/combustion process that can prove better suited to diesel when compared to veg oil. This is why certain engine types readily take to veg oil, whilst other may require modification before successful use, and some some not use it at all.

A number of elements are crucial to successful use of veg oil including the fuel pump, the injectors, combustion chamber design and overall condition of the engine. On Surf's the fuel pump is fine and the combustion chamber is not something you're likely to try and modify, of the remainder the injectors are the most influential item. If these are in poor condition, worn, clogged, etc. then whilst not at optimal on the diesel they're designed for, they could potentially be even worse on alternate fuels such as veggie. They may be spraying inefficiently, a problem which would be exacerbated by the higher viscosity of the veg oil.

Injectors in poor condition would certainly be a prime suspect if a vehicle is getting noticable worse mileage on veg-oil.

[Carl-P]

I ran a peugeot partner 1900cc non turbo diesel van for 2 years, in that 2 years i never once had an issue with blocked filters of starting problems.
As mentioned in posts above, the engine ran smoother, i assumed this was due to the pump slightly starving the cylinders because the SVO was thicker.(who knows?)
One small thing i always did tho, pop half a litre of Glycol based windscreen wash in the tank every 2 weeks, keeps any slurry thinner.

Btw. HM Customs expect you to declare £0.17 pence per litre, but you may also notice SVO fluctuates in price like crude oil.
Its not always cost effiecient but im looking into it with the Hilux.
Everyones points count.

[Gizmo]

Just contacted C&E and been told that they will charge at 53.27 pence...looks like were being screwed as more join the cause of running on green fuels!!

Next time I'm thinking of breaking the law!!!..screw the government and the consequences...if they want the public to undertake greener causes et al but be screwed by them on duty then they can go take a flying leap


PS: in using the windscreen wash in the tank did you declare it as a fuel substitute as depicted in their document. Even fuel cleaners are classed as substitute?? doh! So using a fuel cleaner etc to make sure your injectors are running efficiently and clean to cause less pollution your going to be levied!....they can go a stick their heads up their pen-pushing a**es

[Diezel Weazel]

Just contacted C&E and been told that they will charge at 53.27 pence...looks like were being screwed as more join the cause of running on green fuels!!

Next time I'm thinking of breaking the law!!!..screw the government and the consequences...if they want the public to undertake greener causes et al but be screwed by them on duty then they can go take a flying leap


PS: in using the windscreen wash in the tank did you declare it as a fuel substitute as depicted in their document. Even fuel cleaners are classed as substitute?? doh! So using a fuel cleaner etc to make sure your injectors are running efficiently and clean to cause less pollution your going to be levied!....they can go a stick their heads up their pen-pushing a**es

Well said Gizmo
Sounds like as always they know better ( I dont think )& missed the Boat as usual, but head of the Queue for the handouts.
Those of us that know better, awt to vote ourselves an MP's wages


There's always a Payback.... You just can't see it Comin !!!!

[Morr]

Still running fine at 50/50 and -4 Celsius

One of our colder mornings here today, -4 Celsius according to the Surfs thermometer (however accurate that may be) and she still starts and runs perfectly on a 50/50 mix. No sign of any hesitation or roughness, its still indistinguishable (from inside the cabin anyway where you can't smell it ) from running on regular Derv

[yoshie]

One of our colder mornings here today, -4 Celsius according to the Surfs thermometer (however accurate that may be) and she still starts and runs perfectly on a 50/50 mix. No sign of any hesitation or roughness, its still indistinguishable (from inside the cabin anyway where you can't smell it ) from running on regular Derv

Morr can I give this veggie lark a try on an unmodified surf 3.0 td?
If so is it just straight asda/tesco veg oil and whats a good mix to start with?

[Morr]

Morr can I give this veggie lark a try on an unmodified surf 3.0 td?
If so is it just straight asda/tesco veg oil and whats a good mix to start with?

Of course you can, but only after you've read this complete thread from the top
Seriously, it really is best to read up on it before starting so that you understand the best way to approach it, all the info is at the top of the thread on how best to get started.

[yoshie]

Of course you can, but only after you've read this complete thread from the top
Seriously, it really is best to read up on it before starting so that you understand the best way to approach it, all the info is at the top of the thread on how best to get started.

Done start to finish need to find these forms to pay the dictators
going to try 12 litres on a tank full to assess the smell factor.

Thanks to all who have added to this thread big hanks to Morr for educating us all.

[spans]

Hi all

Does anyone know if there is a list of producers of bio-diesel around, what I would like to find is someone who is making the stuff ready to go straight in the tank, pay them, and err drive away, if its possible.

If not, then I will have to get a large tank, and put a bell for you all in the east mids.

[andy]

Hi all

Does anyone know if there is a list of producers of bio-diesel around, what I would like to find is someone who is making the stuff ready to go straight in the tank, pay them, and err drive away, if its possible.

If not, then I will have to get a large tank, and put a bell for you all in the east mids.

I did a Google search and found a few, try looking for (biodiesel outlets).

[Jim-Phillips]

I have been producing Biodiesel for nearly 2 years and have used it in several vehicles - Toyota HJ60 and Nissan patrol 2.8. I bought a 1996 Surf on Friday and have filled up on my home brew. As expected it runs fine. The only reason not to get good results is that you don't make good biodiesel.

Jim