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Thinking of using Veg-oil ?

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  • #46
    News From Hrmc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Just got this from a helpful bloke in Scotland at HMRC

    ############################## ####################

    On the second point there does appear to be some confusion over what constitutes Biodiesel.

    The law describes "Biodiesel" as a diesel quality liquid fuel that is produced
    from biomass or waste cooking oil:
    the ester content of which is not less than 96.5% by weight; and
    the sulphur content of which does not exceed 0.005% by weight, or is
    nil.
    "Bioblend" means any mixture that is produced by mixing:
    Biodiesel; and
    heavy oil that has not been charged with the excise duty on
    hydrocarbon oil.
    "Bioethanol" means a liquid fuel:
    consisting of ethanol produced from biomass; and
    capable of being used for the same purposes as light oil.
    "Bioethanol blend" means any mixture that is produced by mixing:
    bioethanol; and
    hydrocarbon oil not charged with excise duty.

    The critical issue is "produced from" and fuel produced from such as SVO or UCO must
    meet all the conditions of the fiscal specification before qualifying for the lower rate of duty.

    It is up to the producer/user of the product to show Customs that the
    product meets the full definition. This can
    be done by reference to a test carried out by an independent chemist, or in
    the case of smaller producers by advising Customs of
    the recipe and method used to manufacture the product. There should be evidence that this is the recipe and method consistently used. The
    production of test results are not, on their
    own, proof that the product consistently meets the specification. The
    producer/user should also furnish evidence that the
    biofuel has been made using ingredients that will result in a fuel that
    meets the biodiesel specification. In simple terms this
    excludes the use of ingredients such as white spirit
    (which is a hydrocarbon) in the production process.
    Any product that does not meet the Biodiesel specification will be
    considered a fuel substitute and will attract the
    appropriate duty rate.
    The Public Notice No. 179E is being re-printed and I have put your name on the mailing list


    ############################## ####################

    So what do we conclude from that ?????????????

    HELP !
    Congratulations Breed Request's

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    • #47
      We conclude exactly what we've said all along! Veg oil is OK
      They are stupid, or they think the rest of us are.
      You aint seen me, right

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      • #48
        Coconut oil anyone?

        http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003520.html
        1996 SSR-G 3.0 TD Intercooler
        Mazda Rotaries too!

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        • #49
          all you need to do is, put the lime in the coconut, shake it all around..
          it's in me shed, mate.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Chillitt
            all you need to do is, put the lime in the coconut, shake it all around..
            Mix it with a good shot of Appletons estate or Navy Neaters if you prefer a dark one - introduce it into your tank and after 3 or 4 you will feel a strange warmth spreading through your body - and you wont give a monkeys f*ck about HMC&E
            Did I mention I have a BLUE one
            Tony

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            • #51
              i say doctor!
              it's in me shed, mate.

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              • #52
                Well I've nearly sourced all the bits I need for the SVo conversion and I can tell you its a lot less than the 450 that you can buy a kit for on the net As for weather changing, yep the first time today she was chugging on tick over when she was cold on pure veg oil but once the engine had heated up she was purring like a pussy cat

                So best pull my finger out and get the kit together willpost pics and prices on here when I've installed and know its all good!

                Its nice to know that Surfs have a heater matrix in the back for rear passengers thats going to make my job a hell of alot easier Just hope these 12volt valves I got are man enough to supply enough fuel for the hungry beast that she is.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Donk_UK
                  Well I've nearly sourced all the bits I need for the SVo conversion and I can tell you its a lot less than the 450 that you can buy a kit for on the net As for weather changing, yep the first time today she was chugging on tick over when she was cold on pure veg oil but once the engine had heated up she was purring like a pussy cat

                  So best pull my finger out and get the kit together willpost pics and prices on here when I've installed and know its all good!

                  Its nice to know that Surfs have a heater matrix in the back for rear passengers thats going to make my job a hell of alot easier Just hope these 12volt valves I got are man enough to supply enough fuel for the hungry beast that she is.

                  keep us posted then Donk....
                  Nili secundum desperandum

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                  • #54
                    trying to order the bits as I am typing god damn CPC's website is slow, I got my forms through from HM C&E today! DoH you can't really use striaght oil from the supermarkets it says on there it must be used or modified oil. Hmmm can I get around it in what sense does modified mean, I will be modifiying it buy heating it in my fuel tank to make it thinner or modding it by not using the small 3ltr bottles they come in.

                    I do actually plan on using the used oil from work but I want to get it all up and running first. They say HM does often do home checks to see what you are doing is safe and legal so gotta play buy the book me thinks.

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                    • #55
                      ok I need some help now peeps....

                      attachment with the HM C&E states:

                      Following legal advice we have concluded that in order to qualify as a biodiesel and therefore attract the lower rate of duty, veg oil ( wether used or unused ) must be processed by some method which converts the veg oil into a fuel suitable for the use in a diesel engine - the only method we are currently aware of is the transesterifcation process. Our decision is based on research into the reason for the introduction of the reduced duty rate for bio diesel, which was to provide for the additional costs in producing the fuel against the cost of producing ordinary diesel.


                      Sounds like Im stuck, and ive just ordered the bits too ! a few bits in here sound a bit sketchy to me though.

                      processed by some " method " sounds a bit open to me, after all a method could be pouring into my heated tank and making it thinner.

                      fuel suitable for a diesel engine the notes in the document state a diesel fuel is this : diesel fuel means capable of being used for the same purposes as a heavy oil. Revenue and Customs consider that " diesel qaulity " means that biodiesel will run, in a blend with ordinary diesel, an engine that would normally run on diesel. Biodiesel does not have to be used exclusively in the fuel tank, although this is possible.

                      Most vehicles require a blend of biodiesel 5% and 95% ordinary diesel to meet manafacturers specifications.

                      Could I argue the fact that when my svo is 70'C plus in the tank when it has warmed up and I intend to use it then as my "method " which is perfectly good fuel in any diesel as I am aware of?
                      I've read to much jargon tonight and am getting tired help me through this madness.

                      Seems like we could save a penny here or 2 or at least it did but I think her madge has finally killed it off. After all if you have to pay the full duty of so called substitute fuels IE 46p ltr then there really is no point at all is there.

                      gotta love this quote a nice kick in the dangerly's

                      Our decision is based on research into the reason for the introduction of the reduced duty rate for bio diesel, which was to provide for the additional costs in producing the fuel against the cost of producing ordinary diesel.

                      In laymans terms we didnt realise you lot could do it this cheap so have this in yer knackers ! oh and happy xmas one and all !

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        [QUOTE=Donk_UK]

                        Could I argue the fact that when my svo is 70'C plus in the tank when it has warmed up and I intend to use it then as my "method " which is perfectly good fuel in any diesel as I am aware of?

                        [QUOTE]

                        I think it is as simple as that.

                        HMC&E are too close to their subject.

                        The people making money here, by confusing things, are..... the lawyers...

                        Your 'conversion' to make it suitable is an in-line conversion, using heat to thin the oil to make it suitable.
                        Oil that is not thinned either
                        1. Gels in cold weather
                        2. Has a tendency (possibly) to coke the injectors and pistons.

                        Besides, the point of the 'legislation' is not to make lawyers money, the point is to stop the ice-cap melting by reducing greenhouse gases. I believe.

                        They are hard work sometimes aren't they.

                        I reckon you could just pay the Biodiesel rate and let the dumb bums take you to court, and prove your case in court.

                        Ideas

                        P

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                        • #57
                          This discussion is already happening on the "Phone call from C&E thread" here

                          Just so I don't start foaming at the mouth again...
                          Peter

                          I am not a number. I am a FREE MAN!

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                          • #58
                            Thanks for that I was begining to thinkI was on my own here

                            Good reading Im sending mine off tonight so lets see what happens.

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                            • #59
                              Nm struck gold at last heres the links sounds fairly easy to make a trans what not kit yourself as they are around 1000 dollars to buy one. Not sure where to source Lye and Methanol from as of yet.

                              http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/gettingstarted/

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Thinking of using veg oil ?

                                Hi,
                                Did anyone else see very interesting part of Working Lunch BBC2 today....Simon Gompertz interviewed a guy in south west england who showed how to make and what vehicles (pumps etc) accepted different types of veg oil, palm oil, any blooming oil or so it seemed....he also had a very nice piece of kit... an in-line heat exchanger which was "fired" by water ie pipe in and pipe out from water jacket AND an electric heater ALL in one tiny item....what make ? dunno dunno dunno, anyone else see it.....very interestiiiiiing but sexy !

                                whens it available again, the editor is Tracey Hobbs write to her......

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