Help needed on 3rd Gen Suspension

[lclascaris]

Thanks for that Vince,
It seems that after Rob replaced the shocks with Genuine ones & it transformed his Surf. Do you think I should replace my shocks & springs with Genuine Toyota instead of Explorerprocomp ones for example????
I was hoping to get a 2" suspension lift on my Surf, but then if my current shocks & springs are tired then maybe replacing with the Genuine parts it will bring my Surf back up to normal height??? Many Thanks Regards Lewis

[Rincewind]

Thanks Vince, that made interesting reading, especially the bit about under/over damping. I wonder if my front dampers are overly stiff or perhaps even partialy seized, can that happen?

I have noticed that the surf hardly roles at all, even on a tight roundabout it stays pretty flat but I thought that was normal, as it is often said that the surf handles in a car like manner.

So it seems I may have a stiff front and soggy rear!!

So what would be the best solution, can any of it be easily tested?

I have noticed plenty of lift kits but not noticed a normal height kit, does one exist?

Thanks for all the help.

Iclacaris, that sounds an unusual truck, don't think I have seen a narrow body 3rd gen with chrome bumbers will definately look out for it.

Keith

[BUSHWHACKER]

You could saw a bit off the bumpstops to give a bit more spring travel.

[MattF]

You could saw a bit off the bumpstops to give a bit more spring travel.

If they're suffering from knackered shocks or springs, though, (which wouldn't
be surprising on a ten year old vehicle), it's a workaround rather than curing the
problem. One of them mentioned having the vehicle checked and no problem
being found, which would tend to point to the springs rather than shocks, if they
did the good old bounce test.

With regards to the springs, Toyota ones will get it back to it's original ride
height/quality. Or, you could go for the Milner's springs which will do the same
but are generally a sturdier spring. Roughtrax do the extended springs for lifting,
but they apparently sag quite a bit under load. Springs are your most likely
culprits, so replacing them first would be the best bet. The Procomp shocks will
work fine, as will the Toyota ones, (obviously). Shocks, however, if they are
faulty, would tend to give excessive bounce by not damping or no movement
if they have seized. Should be fairly easy to check. If I remember correctly,
push down hard on each corner of the vehicle and let go. A normally working
shock should allow the downwards movement and then deaden the bounce
within a couple of up/down movements. If the corner doesn't push down, the
shock is probably seized. If the corner bounces up and down like a Baywatch
birds ****, then the shock is probably just knacked. If they appear okay, spring
replacement would be top of my list.

[mickeyboy]

With regards to the springs, Toyota ones will get it back to it's original ride
height/quality. Or, you could go for the Milner's springs which will do the same
but are generally a sturdier spring. Roughtrax do the extended springs for lifting,
but they apparently sag quite a bit under load.

Just as a suggestion, Explorer offer standard height 15% stronger or 2" longer 15% stronger it just depends on personal preference.

[lclascaris]

The 2" suspension lift kits on the market don't include longer flexible brake hoses, do you think that means the vehicle doesn't need them?

I have read some bad reports about Old Man Emu lift kits, so it seems to be a choice between Explorercomp or LA Supertrux's kits or Tough Dog from Australia I think.

Has anyone with a 3rd Generation Surf experienced these kits, or would recommend any others? Many Thanks Regards Lewis

[TonyN]

I've fitted plenty of Procomp 3rd gen 2" lifts, thay are nice and work well, you don't need extended brake lines.

[lclascaris]

Thanks for that Tony.

What shock set up do you think I should go with?

I use my Surf 99% on the road but I am planning a trip to the Moroccan desert next year, so I will be carrying more stuff. (No saggy arse wanted)

ES3000's front & rear or ES3000 on the front & ES9000's on the back? My Surf does NOT have adjustable shocks if that makes any difference.

Do you sell the procomp lift kits cheaper than Explorercomp? & how much would you charge for fitting please.

Many Thanks Lewis

[TonyN]

You can only get one type of +2" front strut from Procomp, I guess is similar to the 3000's as the kit comes with 3000's on the rear, but you could uprate the rears to 9000's to stiffen it up a little more, but extra stiffness isn't normally the problem with 3rd gens!!

Prices are the same as Procomp website, and fitting is £200.



If you have a little more money, I'd recommend rear airbags for the big trip. I fitted some for Andy Lala, and Jotto has some on his truck and they are great for levelling out the truck if its loaded up without affecting the handling when empty.

There is a thread on here from when we fitted Andy set. Not sure how much though, as Andy got them himself from the US, and I just fitted them.

[Rincewind]

Well I have been outside bouncing up and down on the poor old Surf and the rear is pretty soft and wallowy but the bouncing stops pretty quickly so probably just springs.
The front however is very stiff, in fact, useing all my not inconsiderable weight I could only get an inch or so of moment and that could have been the tyres flexing, is this normal, or have the springs been previously changed for very stiff ones, or are the shocks seizing up? Is there any way to tell or will I need to use a process of elilination by replacing parts.

Thanks Matt for the info. and I will have a look at Explorer Mickyboy as I would like to keep to standard height.

Keith

[MattF]

Are both sides at the front moving the same amount? That does sound like
a poor amount of travel. From what I can gather of the 3rd gen suspension,
strong springs should still allow fairly easy movement. Only thing I can think
of are that the springs are shot and so the bumpstops are hitting quickly, or
your shocks are seized. It would be unusual for both shocks to seize at the
same time, however. Someone who is more knowledgeable on the third gen
front suspension may be able to offer other advice. If you're keeping standard
height, for the springs, I personally would recommend the Milner's ones. In
previous discussions regarding springs, they always appear to be the more
resilient under load.

[da SLUG man]

i'd go and check, but it's on axle stands at the mo!

[BUSHWHACKER]

Why, wassup?

[da SLUG man]

Why, wassup?

broke a balljoint of 2!!

at 60mph... it was exciting!

[Rincewind]

Hi Matt (da slug man), sounds scary, glad you survived, is it something us 3rd genners need to look out for?

Hi Mattf, I am definately leaning toward something strange about the shocks as I agree it should be relatively easy to get some movement, I am pretty sure it gets no where near the bumpstops as it really isn't moving.

I have been trying out the bouncing technique on other family cars and my daughters 10 year golf is incrdibly soft, lean on it and it sinks several inches but my year old mini cooper is almost immovable like the Surf mind you it does really crash through potholes just like the Surf! I am getting quite addicted to bouncing on cars to test out the springing just hope it isn't illegal.

Like the sound of milners springs as I am definately looking for a reasonable amount of compliance, I rarely off road or drive at high speed and comfort is paramount.

Keith