Spot Lights Again

[POPEYE]

Hi I've been trawling through the posts relating to spots, leagal and electricle,
and just want to run this by you guys (experts), I'm planning on fitting six
spot lights on my front bars, (the angel eye sort), this will comprise four on top of the center bar and two under it (either side of the number plate), I.ve
measured up and they will fit but it means the top 4 will be close together,
So firstly! am i reading the leagal side of it right? I can only have "two" spots
working with my main beam and they must be no higher than 55watt each,
they must also be at least 400mm apart (no higher than a metre off the deck,) Is it permissable to fit the top four close together as long as I wire them through a isolating switch as well as an opperating switch and only
use them off road (or when no ones about) and can i wire all the angel eye
led's to my side lights leagaly,
Secondly! At a later date (after i've changed the garage door) i intend to fit
a roof bar with 4 or 5 lights on it, Running them through the same isolating &
opperating switch, So the advise i need is this!
Assuming im fitting 130watt bulbs to the off road lights (4 front & 5 roof)
what is the best type of switch ot use (to cope with the ampherage) Thats
both switches isolate and on/off,
Is it advisable to wire relays into each light, each pair or what?
I've got a good supply of cable, Dont know what gauge it is but it was used
on busses (24volt) and its quite thick, Does this sound ok to use,
Ill probably need some more info when i come to wireing the relays, I would
like to run a seperate supply and fuse box for accessories so i dont mess with
the original loom to much especially with this negative switching stuff,
Many thanks in advance for any help and advise and sorry its longwinded
and my spelling is shart, cant find the spellcheker, Regards Ian

[da SLUG man]

wire through a relay...
work out the current to find what rating and number of relays you'll need.

[coolsv650]

Hi I've been trawling through the posts relating to spots, leagal and electricle,
and just want to run this by you guys (experts), I'm planning on fitting six
spot lights on my front bars, (the angel eye sort), this will comprise four on top of the center bar and two under it (either side of the number plate), I.ve
measured up and they will fit but it means the top 4 will be close together,
So firstly! am i reading the leagal side of it right? I can only have "two" spots
working with my main beam and they must be no higher than 55watt each,
they must also be at least 400mm apart (no higher than a metre off the deck,) Is it permissable to fit the top four close together as long as I wire them through a isolating switch as well as an opperating switch and only
use them off road (or when no ones about) and can i wire all the angel eye
led's to my side lights leagaly,
Secondly! At a later date (after i've changed the garage door) i intend to fit
a roof bar with 4 or 5 lights on it, Running them through the same isolating &
opperating switch, So the advise i need is this!
Assuming im fitting 130watt bulbs to the off road lights (4 front & 5 roof)
what is the best type of switch ot use (to cope with the ampherage) Thats
both switches isolate and on/off,
Is it advisable to wire relays into each light, each pair or what?
I've got a good supply of cable, Dont know what gauge it is but it was used
on busses (24volt) and its quite thick, Does this sound ok to use,
Ill probably need some more info when i come to wireing the relays, I would
like to run a seperate supply and fuse box for accessories so i dont mess with
the original loom to much especially with this negative switching stuff,
Many thanks in advance for any help and advise and sorry its longwinded
and my spelling is shart, cant find the spellcheker, Regards Ian

From my recollection (and the legal stuff is a little hazy now) the minimum height from the road is 1 meter (for a spot) below that they can only be used in fog or falling snow, "fog lamps" above that spots/flood lights can be used but must be a maximum of 55watts for road use (allegidly).

My setup is 2 oval spots below the bumper (meter or so I don't know) mounted on the bull bar is a pair of secondary lamps (these dip so can be used with or instead of the main headlamps, they are also dipped from the dipswitch with a serparate switch to activate) then on the roof is 4 wipac 4x4 spots. These are on 1 swith and the below bumber ones on a seperate one (these are also linked into the main beam).

Relays are linked into the system and the switches are in the main beam line. The roof lamps onto a 40 amp relay, the others a 20 amp. From what I can remember 55watts is 4.5amps.

I've fitted a secondary fusebox with a supply taken directly from one of the batteries. As of wire size I've used 14/0.30 for the ones under the bumper and either 44 or 65/0.30 for the roof ones.

I got all my bits from Vehicle Wiring products

Personally. I've always had loads of lamps on my cars and never had a problem with the local constabulary & see loads of 4x4 (not just surfs) with lots of lamps. Bearing in mind that these are normally only used when nobody else is about I don't think they care. I think they are more interested in persecuting drivers for speeding (OW! i've fallen off my soapbox)

Regards

[koed]

[QUOTE=coolsv650]From my recollection (and the legal stuff is a little hazy now) the minimum height from the road is 1 meter (for a spot) below that they can only be used in fog or falling snow, "fog lamps" above that spots/flood lights can be used but must be a maximum of 55watts for road use (allegidly).

My setup is 2 oval spots below the bumper (meter or so I don't know) mounted on the bull bar is a pair of secondary lamps (these dip so can be used with or instead of the main headlamps, they are also dipped from the dipswitch with a serparate switch to activate) then on the roof is 4 wipac 4x4 spots. These are on 1 swith and the below bumber ones on a seperate one (these are also linked into the main beam).

Relays are linked into the system and the switches are in the main beam line. The roof lamps onto a 40 amp relay, the others a 20 amp. From what I can remember 55watts is 4.5amps.

I've fitted a secondary fusebox with a supply taken directly from one of the batteries. As of wire size I've used 14/0.30 for the ones under the bumper and either 44 or 65/0.30 for the roof ones.

I got all my bits from Vehicle Wiring products

Personally. I've always had loads of lamps on my cars and never had a problem with the local constabulary & see loads of 4x4 (not just surfs) with lots of lamps. Bearing in mind that these are normally only used when nobody else is about I don't think they care. I think they are more interested in persecuting drivers for speeding (OW! i've fallen off my soapbox)

Regards[/QUOTE

I think they are more interested in persecuting drivers for speeding...


they are if u live in n.wales

[da SLUG man]

I think they are more interested in persecuting drivers for speeding...


they are if u live in n.wales

yeah, but some idiots drive with fogs and spots on all the time

[Chillitt]

the road vehicles lighting regulations 1989...
fog and driving lamps.
should be positioned symmetrically; the same hieght from the road and the same distance from the sides of the vehicle. the lenses can be clear or yellow.
fog lamps.
should be fitted so that their outer edges are no more than 400mm from the outer edge of the car. maximum hieght above the ground1200mm
driving lamps.
can only be used with main beam and should be extinguished when headlights are dipped.
fog lamps.
can be used on their own, but should never be used unless visibility is seriously reduced. there are no requirements for positioning of driving lamps, but you should not dazzle any other road user.
dont ask me about rear lights, cos i dont know.

[POPEYE]

Thanks everyone for your replys, got to shoot off to brighton this morn so ill go through them tonight properly, the spots i like are the blue lense with blue led ring, Seen other vechs withem so suppose there ok, Later mateys, Ian

[Guest]

the road vehicles lighting regulations 1989...
fog and driving lamps.
should be positioned symmetrically; the same hieght from the road and the same distance from the sides of the vehicle. the lenses can be clear or yellow.
fog lamps.
should be fitted so that their outer edges are no more than 400mm from the outer edge of the car. maximum hieght above the ground1200mm
driving lamps.
can only be used with main beam and should be extinguished when headlights are dipped.
fog lamps.
can be used on their own, but should never be used unless visibility is seriously reduced. there are no requirements for positioning of driving lamps, but you should not dazzle any other road user.
dont ask me about rear lights, cos i dont know.

Also as far as I remember, unlike fog lamps, spot / driving lamps have no postion or number of lights rules, however they must only work with main beam. MAximum wattage is however 55w for on road use. I used, two mounted on the front of my roof rack with no problems on the road or in the MOT.

Remeber also that the alternator on the Surf is pretty weak and all those lights will seriously drain the battery, might want to put a deep cycle auxiliary battery to power them like an Optioma or an Exide Maxima and fit a split charging system.

[Medieval Dave]

A quick note on amps.

Power (W) = VoltsxAmps

So Amps = Watts/Volts

So a pair of std 55w spots is 110w total (55x2)

The amps is 110/12= 9 amps ish.

Always allow a little extra on top so this means a 15A fuse probably.

Sizing a cable, you want to be sure that the fuse burns up before the cable even in a dead short, so it is crucial that the wire is rated greater than the fuse, and that the correct size crimps for the cable are used or these give a weak spot in the circuit.

There is a practicable limit of about 30A if you use a normal blade fuse setup because of the rating of the blade connection itself - although you can get bigger than 30A fuses I wouldn't trust them.

This means that you can just about put 4 off 55w lights on one circuit.

55 x 4 = 220

220/12 = 18.3A

say 25A fuse and 30A relay and cable.

But 130's need to be a seperate circuit for each pair because

130x2=260
260/12=21.7A

Four 130's is over 40A, and too much of a fire risk for me.

Remember:

Work out the Amps for each circuit.
Select a fuse one size up from that.
Select your cable, relay and connectors all bigger again than the fuse.

I would use a relay every time for anything but the piddliest load. for obscure reasons lighting loads burn up contacts in switches (which is why on the surf, where the lighting current is switched directly through the high/low switch, they get very dim with age as the contacts degrade) Relays survive better and are easy to replace.

Also remember if you end up with say four lighting circuits for your 8 lamps (I would), and you want to bring the live to all four circuits, then if you daisy chain them (from one to another) then that cable has to be enough for all the loads togehter. if in doubt take them all back to the battery, and loom them together with spirap.

Vehichle wiring products sells little fuseboxes, fuses, relays and switches. if you read carefully they have the current (A) rating of all thier cables and switches listed so you can pick the right ones.

I'm an electrical engineer, so feel free to PM if I can help anyone with wiring sizes etc.

Dave

[POPEYE]

Many Thanks everyone, Especially Dave Andy & ChilliT, Dave i will PM you if
needs be but i should be ok, I have that vech wireing co on my favorits list
and i'll check them out, I would realey like all the spots on the main beam but
if its easier on a seperate switch then ill do it that way, The bosh fog lamps
on my old A bar came on with the side lights which i thought a little unusual,
Judgeing by the loom on them it looked like a factory fitting, i've disconnected that so i'm left with a side light connector for the angel eye
led's supply, As for the batterys, Yeah all them spots! big drain, I was thinking
about a third battery (or an uprated altenator, if there is such a thing)
probably another battery, that would take the load of the other two a bit,
Anyway thanks again, I'll stick a pic on general chat when i've got em bolted
on, Probably be a while before post a pic with them switched on,
Best Regards Ian

[AndyLala]

An uprated second battery may well assist with the increased current demand... however if the alternator cannot manage to fulfill that demand in the first place, it won't be able to replace it once its used up.

[Medieval Dave]

Many Thanks everyone, Especially Dave Andy & ChilliT, Dave i will PM you if
needs be but i should be ok, I have that vech wireing co on my favorits list
and i'll check them out, I would realey like all the spots on the main beam but
if its easier on a seperate switch then ill do it that way, The bosh fog lamps
on my old A bar came on with the side lights which i thought a little unusual,
Judgeing by the loom on them it looked like a factory fitting, i've disconnected that so i'm left with a side light connector for the angel eye
led's supply, As for the batterys, Yeah all them spots! big drain, I was thinking
about a third battery (or an uprated altenator, if there is such a thing)
probably another battery, that would take the load of the other two a bit,
Anyway thanks again, I'll stick a pic on general chat when i've got em bolted
on, Probably be a while before post a pic with them switched on,
Best Regards Ian

You can still have them come on with the main beam. You can take a tapping off the main beam (that is live when main beam is on), via a switch (so you can do without them if your battery is suffering) to all four relays onto 8 lamps.

I have a single tap off the main beam, then via two seperate switches to two relays, to four lamps. that way I can have 4,2 or no spots come on with main beam. you could do the same with four switches, four relays and 8 lamps to give the option of none , two, four, six or 8 (if you can be bothered) it wwould look kinda cool flicking them on two at a time till you look like 'close encounters of the third kind'. if you get stuck let me know and I'll do a drawing and scan it in.

Dave

[HYPERMONKEY]

spots

hi just got some fog lights of a older surf,also got a wiring kit from the plce previously mentioned .

i want to wire them up so that they come via a simple on/of switch,not with any of the other lights .i have a switch that came with the kit.
the question i have is do you have to splice into any of the side light/head light wires to run them soley separate??

[POPEYE]

You can still have them come on with the main beam. You can take a tapping off the main beam (that is live when main beam is on), via a switch (so you can do without them if your battery is suffering) to all four relays onto 8 lamps.

I have a single tap off the main beam, then via two seperate switches to two relays, to four lamps. that way I can have 4,2 or no spots come on with main beam. you could do the same with four switches, four relays and 8 lamps to give the option of none , two, four, six or 8 (if you can be bothered) it wwould look kinda cool flicking them on two at a time till you look like 'close encounters of the third kind'. if you get stuck let me know and I'll do a drawing and scan it in.

Dave

Hi Dave, Yeah that sounds good, I like the idea of a small bank of switches
controling all or any combination of lights, (be like preflight check hehe)
Could go all the way and rig them to a sound system and put the wind up
someone sat at traffic lights on a dark night!
My concern was tapping into the high beam wire as it looks to thin but i guess
thinking about it, It's only being used to power the relays, the main power coming from the batterys, Afraid i'm a bit of a dunce when it comes to auto
electrics,I'm ok wireing a switch but a bit lost with anything more complicated, Im ordering the six spots tomorrow, the roof bar will have to
wait untill i've changed my gagage door from up & over To too openers,
that'll give me more head room, Thanks for the offer of a drawing, I may
take you up on that if i get stuck, I'll see how i get on, I'll also print this to
keep handy, Thanks again, Ian

















T

[Medieval Dave]

hi just got some fog lights of a older surf,also got a wiring kit from the plce previously mentioned .

i want to wire them up so that they come via a simple on/of switch,not with any of the other lights .i have a switch that came with the kit.
the question i have is do you have to splice into any of the side light/head light wires to run them soley separate??

Depends if you want them on when the key is out, if not, then I would wire them as follows, which is about the standard way to wire fogs, either front or rear;

1. The power circuit. In minimum 2.5mmsqr cable (about 25A) but I would go 4mm if poss in case you add more lights.

Run as short as possible to the fuse. Remember that before the fuse the cable is unprotected so if copper touches the body it WILL burn. I reccomend fitting a little aux fusebox right next to the battery, they are about 4 pounds. For two 55w foglights use a 15A fuse. From the fuse run into the relay contacts then out the other side of the contacts to the first lamp and loop to the second.

take the earth of each lamp to a good local earth (any bolt onto clean bare metalwork) always cover your earth points with a good blob of grease.

Now when the relay is energised the lights will come on.

2. the control circuit. in minimum 1mm2 normally, but I would go 2.5mm unless you understand the fusing araingement of what you are tapping into - remember the wire must always have a bigger rating than the fuse that protects it or sooner or later it will end up in flames.

Find a wire on the sidelight circuit which is live when the sidelights are on. Tap into this and run to your switch

From the other side of the switch run to your relay coil, and from the other side of the coil to a good earth. Now when the sidelights are on AND the switch is on current will flow from the sidelight circuit through the switch and through the relay coil to earth. this will energise the relay allowing the power circuit to operate.

Notes:

1. remember the power and control circuits are seperate circuits and each must be protected by a fuse. In the above case we use the fuse of the sidelight circuit, if our new wiring goes wrong then we take out the sidelight fuse. If you just use the switch then you should fit a seperate fuse between the battery and the switch.

2. All the cable in your circuit must be capable of carrying more current than the rating of the fuse protecting it. Fuses are there to protect cables, not the lights on the end of them, it's cables that can set fire to your truck.

3. On your relay the symbol for the coil will normally look like a spring, and the symol for the contacts (the switch that closes when the coil is energised) will look like an arial view of a half open gate.

4. You don't need to have or understand the wiring diagram to pick up feeds to swotch relays. If you need to find a feed from the sidelights that is live when the sidelights are on for example then you can do it as follows with a cheapo voltmeter. This technique is called 'backpinning'

connect the black probe of your meter to earth (bare metal). chack you have done so correctly by setting the meter to OHMS or continuity (symbol like a horseshoe on some meters), then touch the red probe to another bit of metal and the display should drop to zero or close.

Now set your meter to Volts (DC). push the red probe into the back of the connector that goes to the light switch on the steering column. don't disconnect it, just push the probe in from behind. if that wire is not live then you will get 0V if it is live you should get between 12V and 15V. so flick the sidelights on and off and watch for the volts going up when the light is on and down when it is off. when you find one that does that then you've found the wire you need to tap into.

Hope that all makes sense, If not give me a shout.

P.S. if anyone up my end of the world wants help with wiring stuff I would be up for that, especialy if you are the sort of person that can do mechanical stuff without loosing a finger and can help me with those bits!