Cooling system AGAIN!! everything tried....

[Tiger]

I fear i may have a cracked block aswell. Is there really noway of testing if block is fubarred. My Surfs sitting in bits awaiting funds for a new 2.8 uprated head ,but this thread has put me off paying a grand just to find out its the block. I also had done numerous block tests with the blue liquid and it never changed colour ,just millions of bubbles going through vial. It seems to me that everyone else who has a cracked head can still manage to drive for miles with slight overheating issues. Where as i could start motor from cold and go less than 1 mile without going over 2000 revs and it would just cook and super heated bubbling boiling water would be pi$$in out and gauge on full red. I think the super heated water in less than 5mins of start is a simptom of a cracked block.

You can get a new recon engine for a grand

[Fatty Smalls]

You can get a new recon engine for a grand

Where's that Tiger and is it with the 2.8 uprated head or just a skimmed 2.4.

[stevo]

blocks

Just to add my two penneth, Surf diesel blocks do not crack, i dont think you will find anyone on this site who has seen a surf block crack, i certainly havn't and iv'e stripped a few.
Cheers Steve

[TonyN]

You can get a new recon engine for a grand

new recon! ?????

[sledge]

new recon! ?????

[Fatty Smalls]

Stevo ,TonyN or NiftyNev as you boys are experts in the disection of Surf lumps and do this for your bread & butter ,have you got any clues to AutoTraxs problems. Every other thread on this forum about overheating/cracked head seems to die ,and we never get to the cause and cure for the problem ,i suppose the owner just gives up & scraps the Surf. If AutoTrax has already put on a new uprated head,new radiator,water pump,T-stat,cap,hoses,viscous fan,gasket & bleed upteen times - what else could it be. Theres no way im spending almost £2000 on all them bits to find it still overheats . There must be 100 threads on overheating & no one ever cures it, apart from a few. Keep this thread alive untill its cured ,lets hope AutoTrax has'nt given in.

[NiftyNev]

Stevo ,TonyN or NiftyNev as you boys are experts in the disection of Surf lumps and do this for your bread & butter

Two out of three ain't bad. I don't get paid. The engine obviously is pressurising the cooling system. Do a leakdown test and see if pressure is transfered to the cooling system. All it takes is a compressor, a fitting for glow plug hole and a gauge to check cooling system pressure attached to the expansion tank hose. Never done this myself but that's the way I would go about it.

Nev

[MattF]

There must be 100 threads on overheating & no one ever cures it, apart from a few.

It is a false assumption that the majority are never repaired successfully.

First, a good percentage of the 2.4's on here are running happily with an uprated head, and there will be far more we never hear of.

Second, the ones which do get mentioned on here are generally for one of two reasons.

1) Everything has been done as it should and it is one of those rare few which has problems other than just the head/pump/fan etc.

2) The owner has little, or possibly none whatsoever, technical abilities, or has possibly used inferior parts to attempt the repair.

The former may have to proceed to checking for a warped block or such. The latter are, in all truthfulness, always going to be fighting a losing battle if they have problems. Either their skill level or equipment is unlikely to lead to a successful repair on most occasions.

However, as mentioned above, the ones which are mentioned on here are merely a fraction of the overall total, when compared to all of the heads successfully replaced and still in active and perfectly functioning service.

[NiftyNev]

It is a false assumption that the majority are never repaired successfully.

First, a good percentage of the 2.4's on here are running happily with an uprated head, and there will be far more we never hear of.

Second, the ones which do get mentioned on here are generally for one of two reasons.

1) Everything has been done as it should and it is one of those rare few which has problems other than just the head/pump/fan etc.

2) The owner has little, or possibly none whatsoever, technical abilities, or has possibly used inferior parts to attempt the repair.

The former may have to proceed to checking for a warped block or such. The latter are, in all truthfulness, always going to be fighting a losing battle if they have problems. Either their skill level or equipment is unlikely to lead to a successful repair on most occasions.

However, as mentioned above, the ones which are mentioned on here are merely a fraction of the overall total, when compared to all of the heads successfully replaced and still in active and perfectly functioning service.

What he said.

Nev

[TonyN]

What he said.

Nev

Yeah, Matt has a way of cutting to the chase.

Its hard to know what really happened in the engine build by reading a forum, but to honest once people start talking about using odd head bolts from other cars or tightening them up as hard as poss, etc... its best to just leave it alone.

I've worked on two 2.4's that still pressured after people had fitted new heads, one the owner decided that it was cheaper to buy another truck with a duff head, and refit his good head to that than take his apart and be stuck with a knackered block, so we left it at that and parted out the original truck to offset costs, so don't know what was really wong with it. Another had a damaged deck, and wouldn't seal, fitted another used motor instead of stripping and re-con'ing old one.

[Autoxtraz]

Still trying.....

Well - that's been some response in last 24 hours!! In the last 24 hours we have had another 2 well qualified (read: OLD!) mechanics have a good check over this vehicle and same conclusion...head or block is leaking - at least I'm not going senile - yet! So as a last gasp resort we have ordered some of theis "snake oil" system sealer called "STEEL SEAL" @ £30/treatment....but only after speaking to a few others in the Trade beforehand with no negative comments - yet!
We can only draw 3 possible conclusions from this fiasco 1) The NEW Upgraded cyclinder is crap! and leaking 2) The block IS cracked - however unlikley that may seem 3) The NEW upgraded s/steel cylinder head gasket is blown - very possible. So if the snake oil does not work it's going to be scrapped or a replacement motor fitted - pretty unliley as the vehicle now owes over £3k!
Will keep the post updated to it's final conclusion.

[gwh200]

a gguy near me who breaks surf,pickups and land vruisers advised me to not use an form of sealent in the cooling system.notwhithstanding this, he then went ahead and used some steel seal in a non turbo 2.4 pick up, but it lasted perhaps 30 miles before it chucked a rod straight through the side of the block, so please bear this in mind.

[fixitdaz]

Hi all
I had the same problem with my surf chucking out its water after 10 mins driving after replacing head and gasket after a lot of head scratching i pulled the head bolts up a extra 1/4 tern and this solved the problem.
Hop this helps. Good Look.

[Autoxtraz]

&*^%$ Snake oil!!!!!

Well as guessed the Sanke Oil did bugger all - and took all day to run - especially as at 1000 rpm this thing never warms up quick enough - takes bout 2 hours to reach temp - and then the pressures high enough to blow a hose!! Would have been cheaper having a toilet break into the radiator instead of spending £30 on this water!!!!Gee thanks Steel Seal!!
Will do as per previous post and torque 1 more time.....

[Autoxtraz]

Final follow up

Well folks we left this bugger in the yard for weeks so we could look at it in disgust at our leisure.....finally this weekend we decided to give it one last go. Ordered a new set of Payne OEM head bolts and a set of bolt extractors. Managed to get off every one of the chinese crap headbolts without problem - 6 of them are so round they look like cap screws!! Replaced and removed the head bolts one by one, retorqued to factory specs plus 2 further torques to 90 degrees each then a further additional torque to 90 degress.
Did I mention that we tried the amazing Steel Seal???what a load of snake oil that turned out to be at £30 a time....
Anyway, fired it up, ran continually in yard for 2 hours between 1000 and 3000 rpm and could not even get the fan to cut in - temp gauge stayed in middle the whole time - but it's done that at every stage of this saga anyway. Miniscule bubbles appeared almost immediatly in thermo housing and top hose pressured up quickly - sigh.......
let it run at the various revs for 2 hours, said sod this, turned it off and.....top hose blew off!!!!hot coolant everywhere...........
Conclusion - either the block is cracked - very very very doubltfull as no sniffer is picking up anything and almost unheard of in these motors, or most likley is a faulty head gasket or a slight nick in engine block mounting surface which is allowing this light flow of gas to escape. So new head gasket & inspection required.
Anyone up for the job? - this now very expensive Surf is on the market for a bargain price of £1000 - just get it out of here....Paul
07768-060162