Cooling system AGAIN!! everything tried....

[Autoxtraz]

A tired mechanic looking for all and any help!!!!2.4 TDi, 1993 model, came to us with new water pump & no apparant problems!!!
Drove it 30 miles before gauge jumped and steam came out, got it trailered back. Stripped off head - no apparant external damage/cracks. Did'nt bother with pressure test bought new uprated head, gaskets etc etc etc.
Bled the system, changed the cap, new heater plugs, viscus fan working ok, 50% anti-f mix. Run it in situ for 1 .5 hours to bleed - seemed ok - all hoses hot. Drove it 10 mins boiled like a kettle. took it back, fitted new copper radiator, bled again for 1 hour, took for 10 min drive - BOILED again - system sucked back coolant from overflow tank when cool so cap is ok. Took 1 litre coolant when cold. Did the coloured sniffer test - no problems showing. Bought another new cap, & removed the thermo anyway. 10 min drive - BOILED again!!!!
Gave it another sniffer test - NO problems showing!!! No oil in water or vice versa etc. When it boils & the overlow pipe is left out it steams like a chimney - put it into the tank and it boils/bubbles like vesuvius!
I know there is a possibility that the water jacket is fractured but surely the would be cross contamination???
When cold - run engine 2 mins max - remove cap and pressure is apparant!!
H E L P - 30 years experience, £900 spent on parts, and I am stumped!!!!

[Koi]

Possible blockage somewhere, would take off one hose at a time and put hose on it and see water if is going round the system OK.
Is the new water pump OK was it fitted by yourselves ??

[NiftyNev]

I know there is a possibility that the water jacket is fractured but surely the would be cross contamination???

Cross contaminination is highly unlikely. Cracks in the head or block occur between coolant passages and the combustion chambers therefore pressure is transfered to the cooling system. Sounds like something is wrong with the new head, the head gasket, or the block itself is cracked.

Nev

[bowella]

Just a thought, are you sure the FIP timing is correct?
A pump running retarded can also cause overheating due to incomplete combustion. This is especially true on a petrol engine so I would think the same would hold true on a diesel engine.
You seem to have covered all the usual overheating causes so I know this is a bit like clutching at straws but that's all I can think of apart from a cracked block which you seem to have ruled out by doing the "sniffer" test.

[Apache]

Isn't it the other way round on a diesel? More burnt fuel = higher EGT. With a petrol, leaner = hotter. Diesel, leaner = cooler.

[NiftyNev]

Pump timing should have no affect on the cooling system. If timing is out it will not run properly. Don't confuse overheating causing loss of coolant, because the overheating is probably happening after coolant loss, because it's forced out of the cooling system from the excess pressure.

Yes, a diesel is the reverse of petrol engines. Rich means high EGTs and lean means you won't melt pistons.

Nev

[GRASSMAN]

Hi Traz,
Did my head 2 years ago now, with no probs since, only ONE pint of aqua, just done my son's head, and it builds pressure quite rapidly, but it's not boiling, both engines are identical, same head supplier, and all the new bits fitted, mine will do loadsa miles and still have a soft top hose, his won't do 2 miles, last night we swapped rad caps and guess what? his will do loadsa miles and stay soft, and mine won't do 2!!!. If you can see the centre rivet move on the rad cap it will build pressure, if it won't move, it does not seen to build. That's the only difference between our two trucks. No signs of combustion gas with block tester. Try to find another surfer close to you who may swap rad caps for a short while. Hope this info helps, keep at it, and don't loose heart.

Which pressure is correct?? (High or low) can some one go and have quick feel please.

[Autoxtraz]

Still boiling!! like me.....

Well went back to this beast this morning re-emptied the cooling system and totally flushed it clean of all anti freeze, rust etc etc, all hoses flowing nicely. Yet another (3 rd rad cap) from our Shogun which we know works perfect - and it's still boiling. The pressure is so high that the hoses actually started leaking out 2 of the clamps!!! and we were wearing face shields incase one of them burst...
Now the water was entirely clear we did another 2 sniffer tests when colloant hot with blue dye - both stayed blue!!!
Yet we can see the bubbles/steam forming in the thermo housing, even more apparent with the sniffer glass when you can see the gas bullbles heading upwards in the tube.
So to recap - NEW upgraded head, new Toyota thick s/s gaskets, new water pump (pumping ok), umpteen sniffer tests, new thermo then removed thermo completley, 3 rad caps, 5 refills of the cooling system, all hoses check and bled bled bled until my eyes were bleeding too!! No contamination into oil or oil into water. When finally goes up to pressure/temp you could steam your carpets with the overflow hose!!!
Does this mean only 1 conclusion - the block is cracked????yet the sniffer does not pick this up WHY??? - oh yes!! AND a brand new radiator too!

[oily]

My money's on a cracked block, sorry

[madcampbell]

Well went back to this beast this morning re-emptied the cooling system and totally flushed it clean of all anti freeze, rust etc etc, all hoses flowing nicely. Yet another (3 rd rad cap) from our Shogun which we know works perfect - and it's still boiling. The pressure is so high that the hoses actually started leaking out 2 of the clamps!!! and we were wearing face shields incase one of them burst...
Now the water was entirely clear we did another 2 sniffer tests when colloant hot with blue dye - both stayed blue!!!
Yet we can see the bubbles/steam forming in the thermo housing, even more apparent with the sniffer glass when you can see the gas bullbles heading upwards in the tube.
So to recap - NEW upgraded head, new Toyota thick s/s gaskets, new water pump (pumping ok), umpteen sniffer tests, new thermo then removed thermo completley, 3 rad caps, 5 refills of the cooling system, all hoses check and bled bled bled until my eyes were bleeding too!! No contamination into oil or oil into water. When finally goes up to pressure/temp you could steam your carpets with the overflow hose!!!
Does this mean only 1 conclusion - the block is cracked????yet the sniffer does not pick this up WHY??? - oh yes!! AND a brand new radiator too!

I had a hose blow on the motorway in a big way...had aa come out and look at it ..replaced hose then he was still was not fully happy so did a sniffer test no or very little change, so left me thinking the hose had split and all would be fine .... on short journeys it was fine....on a longer journey it boiled over again splitting the rad this time. Turned out to be the head....how else do you pressurise the cooling system? now driving another surf as it was cheaper than fixing it!!

[Vagrant No2]

Have you got a rear heater ? If you have , check the hoses to it are not blocked as this will cause an air lock in the system and give the overheat . You can blank off these hoses , do not loop them .Try that and see if it bleeds better as you will get better flow to the front heater aswell .

[MattF]

Where was the gasket purchased from?

[gwh200]

as well as the head gasket, where did you get the head from,if its the same as it may cause issues. if all as is, sounds like a block thing

[Fatty Smalls]

I fear i may have a cracked block aswell. Is there really noway of testing if block is fubarred. My Surfs sitting in bits awaiting funds for a new 2.8 uprated head ,but this thread has put me off paying a grand just to find out its the block. I also had done numerous block tests with the blue liquid and it never changed colour ,just millions of bubbles going through vial. It seems to me that everyone else who has a cracked head can still manage to drive for miles with slight overheating issues. Where as i could start motor from cold and go less than 1 mile without going over 2000 revs and it would just cook and super heated bubbling boiling water would be pi$$in out and gauge on full red. I think the super heated water in less than 5mins of start is a simptom of a cracked block.

[darkdezigns]

I fear i may have a cracked block aswell. Is there really noway of testing if block is fubarred. My Surfs sitting in bits awaiting funds for a new 2.8 uprated head ,but this thread has put me off paying a grand just to find out its the block. I also had done numerous block tests with the blue liquid and it never changed colour ,just millions of bubbles going through vial. It seems to me that everyone else who has a cracked head can still manage to drive for miles with slight overheating issues. Where as i could start motor from cold and go less than 1 mile without going over 2000 revs and it would just cook and super heated bubbling boiling water would be pi$$in out and gauge on full red. I think the super heated water in less than 5mins of start is a simptom of a cracked block.

id say block,but also get head checked when it's off,u may have been given a duff one