Fuel prices

[slobodan]

agreed on a strike also agreed no one has the balls to organize one but being forces I wouldn't be able to support it officially but I'd be happy that it happened the last strike I was one of the unfortunate ones that had to escort the tankers out of the refinery can't remember the name of the place now but it was wales way that was an interesting time my opinion is on this country is stop being gobby thumbs out arses and stick together and sort this problem out. We seem to be the only country that get walked all over let them do it to us then complain after it's happened let's get a bit of national pride, a lot of patriotism and challenge these people. Sorry for ranting but these subjects get on my tits if people arnt willing to try make a difference.

very true mate but if people dont speak out we will stay a nation of wingers, we used to be GREAT britain but now we are europes door mate. so its very much a case of put up shut up or do something about it unfortuantly.

Sorry Slobodan, but I think your calling this Guy a scab is bang out of order

Agreed, maybe scab was a bit strong.
But read the above quotes again.
For a person that actually had a chance to do something, but then moans about everybody else doing nothing smacks a bit of pot and kettle and all that.

Maybe I should have just agreed with 'irony'

[Apache]

Andy,

You going on a jolly or to test some 'exotic armoured vehicle' ?

Nothing exotic john. Power systems testing on Warthog.

[Sancho]

It just rancles that we have some of the cheapest pre-tax fuel in Europe (it was the cheapest but I don't know if that is still valid), and yet we have one of the most expensive post-tax (we were the most expecnsive post-tax at the same time that we were the cheapest pre-tax, but I haven't kept up to date with the stats) pump prices.

Absolutely, but there are two things to remember here:

1. Tax is often used to control consumer behaviour. Cigarettes is the obvious example, but I think it's entirely likely that the Government feel we have enough cars and are using them enough now and it's something that they would rather like to discourage.

2. Tax doesn't go to the actual people in government - it's not the 14th century anymore. It comes back to us somehow. The question I would like answered is where it's all going. Some is going to service our relatively modest national debt - sorry, "Labour's Tax Bombshell" - but I'm buggered if they seem to be able to account for the rest.

Given the direction this thread has taken, I could mention that the UK is just about equal with France (which still has national service) in having the highest defence budget per capita and as a fraction of GDP in Europe (and is top ten in the world). Where does that go? It's obviously not going to the people doing the fighting and we keep being told they haven't got the equipment they need so what happened to it?

Anyway, I don't know, but I suppose this is where Cameron's got his whole 'efficiency' thing from. 'Efficiency' in this case meaning "where is all the money going?"

Incidentally, I just found these (slightly out of date) and thought they were interesting. Not necessarily helpful to this discussion but interesting nonetheless.

[Apache]

we keep being told they haven't got the equipment they need so what happened to it?

At least partly down to the tabloids that one.

They ARE getting the equipment they need. Unfortunately, development of systems to counteract an evolving threat just cant happen overnight even with the best will in the world.

I could tell you about new electronic countermeasures, vehicles etc that have reached Afghanistan and are saving lives now, which were still in development a year ago, brought into service under 1 year UORs.

Sadly, the media (and therefore a large percentage of Joe Public) think a new armoured vehicle or electronic subsystem can be bought ordered from Vauxhall or PC World one week, and be delivered to the sharp end the following week. It doesn't take a genius to think about the process and understand that it takes considerably longer.

[sabreuk]

Agreed, maybe scab was a bit strong.
But read the above quotes again.
For a person that actually had a chance to do something, but then moans about everybody else doing nothing smacks a bit of pot and kettle and all that.

Maybe I should have just agreed with 'irony'

right boyo scab hey hmmmm as a junior soldier at the time when this happend i WAS under orders. we had all our snco there and officers there who did take control and orederd us to do what we did. under the her majestys rule we are told what to do by her government whom told us to escort the vehicles out.

i had 2 choices in your closed mind view then 1: do what i did get labelled a scab by muppets and get the country moving again under orders of her majesty

2: disobey these orders and end up in colchester prison for a period with the possibility of dis honourable discharge

hmmmmmmm if you would choose number 2 i very much doubt id believe you if you was in the same situation.
as a junior solider at the time what difference would it of made if i chose 2 except now destroying the very job i love doing nothing would of changed or made a difference. so my question to you is where was you to make a difference?

you have clearly missed my point ref the rest of what i was saying i ment as a nation we have become walked over and the winge when its happend you have the luxery of doing things we as miltary cant we have civil and miltrary law to follow you dont so if people complaining about subjects like this but arnt willing to do anything about it then whats the point wingeing in the first place. make your petitions, strikes what ever do something about it as you have that luxery myself and the rest of the forces DONT and CANT suppport such actions officaly or there is reprecussions which you wont see or hear about however like i said i would support it in my own personel view but im not going into a political rant on what i think is right and wrong. hope that clears things up a little

[BUSHWHACKER]

You can moan and bitch about it til the cows come home, and protest as much as you like, but its not going to change the price of fish. (or fuel) Suck it up or buy a smaller car. Walk more? Cycle more? Use the train.

What he said.
Makes me laugh when I hear of people complaining about the price of fuel knowing full well they've bought a 'gas guzzler'. The MPG figures are quoted on here all the time!

[flounderbout]

2: disobey these orders and end up in colchester prison for a period with the possibility of dis honourable discharge

Not to mention getting the right royal shit kicked out of you by your SNCO...

[flounderbout]

What he said.
Makes me laugh when I hear of people complaining about the price of fuel knowing full well they've bought a 'gas guzzler'. The MPG figures are quoted on here all the time!

The Lexurf does 55 mpg? Right? Right?

[Vultch]

Fair points Sancho and Apache

I understood the national debt to be 4.8 trillion pounds (this figure includes all public pension liabilities)and the annual deficit to be £159.8 billion/2009.
that's the amount needed to pay off the interest on the £4.8 trillion and keep the country running

To put that in perspective the Irish bailout..the amount needed to clear Irish national debt / to reset the books was 85 billion euro or £73 billion just under half the UK's annual deficit..

I don't understand how the UK works owing so much...but it does..

In terms of defense spending I recommend a great book "lions led by donkeys" an ex navy guy takes the MOD spending to task

[Apache]

In terms of defense spending I recommend a great book "lions led by donkeys" an ex navy guy takes the MOD spending to task

Having seen it from the inside...

There's an awful lot of good engineers and scientists working very long hours to produce cutting edge kit. Sadly, the procedural hoops they need to jump through drag the whole system down, slow things to a crawl, and increase costs astronomically.

There's a huge amount of unnecessary micromanagement goes on - and a lot of people doing non-jobs who only seem to serve to slow things down. I appreciate there needs to be checks and balances, but its now become a bit like the old Woolworths sweet counter thing where they have half a million ££££ worth of CCTV to prevent the theft of 30p worth of pick and mix.

[sbd16v]

Aother thing that increases the costs of items is the fact the mod pay for a contract for that company to suply for x amount of years so parts are allways (well when they pay the bill) available, but this means the company has to stay tooled for a part that might never be actually needed so when one is it's an expensive part.

[sabreuk]

Not to mention getting the right royal shit kicked out of you by your SNCO...

there is that aswell mate, we have some very big lads in our corps.

i agree with andy on the kit being developed and brought in to service and how they go about it, also agree on the false media coverage that we dont have enough kit or any decent kit we do on both counts its just taken a long time to procure it. and on andys comment ref vehicles and electronic kit yes the new kit is good at what it is designed to do and yes the new kit has saved many a life.

[Sancho]

Personally, I think the best way to save lives (and money) would be not to send people off to fight in distant countries for no good reason whatsoever, but that may be one can of worms too many.

[slobodan]

Personally, I think the best way to save lives (and money) would be not to send people off to fight in distant countries for no good reason whatsoever, but that may be one can of worms too many.

Ha, the UK will do what Obama tells it to do.

[schrodingers-cat]

Personally, I think the best way to save lives (and money) would be not to send people off to fight in distant countries for no good reason whatsoever, but that may be one can of worms too many.

If i looked out the window and there was someone getting their head kicked in, raped, tortured, whatever then i`d go out and try to do something about it. This applies to people i cant see too no matter how far away they are, dont give a sh1t about weapons of mass destruction or whatever the official reasons are what it comes down to for me is as simple as people are getting hurt, we could help stop it so we should
No i`m not in any of the armed forces i`m too old but given the chance i`d of gone and at least tried and i take my hat off to all those who did go
We did after all do naff all about hitler untill it was too late