Cooking oil users..

[CaptainBeaky]

Apache - you got there before me!

When I read something like this:

I have no doubt that veg oil mixes will run the car without problems, for a while, perhaps even for the time you own the car. But the consensus of informed opinion is that, in order to avoid numerous problems, many already mentioned you must have some sort of system which alters the properties of the oil i.e heats it, the hotter the better, these stories of trouble free driving, I just bang it in, how many will admit to the fact that they eventually knackered their injection pumps.

I look for the cited examples, and not seeing any, I sniff the air and think, "Horse? No. Sheep? No? Cow? Close... Ah yes, it's BU||$H1T!

[MattF]

To be honest, companies who supply parts for veg oil conversions are not going to turn around and say "you dont need any bits we sell, you can just mix veg with diesel" are they?

I imagine those with a vested interest in selling heaters, special tanks, solenoids, etc are going to perhaps suggest that all might not be well if you dont use their equipment, dont you? It's called 'marketing'

(Sorry, born cynic)

That ain't cynicism. That attitiude is, unfortunately, required where a lot of both the biodiesel and VO bunch are concerned, whether they are sites/individuals with either commercial or personal interest. This is one of my extreme peeves/bugbears or whatever you prefer to call it. Both sides of the alternative fuel information thing suffer an excess of zealots, unfortunately, who pass misleading information both in regards to the alternative, i.e: not their chosen choice, and also in regards to requirements.

Have to say, (in regards to the chap above who has put together this sytem), he has picked a good choice of components, generally speaking. Should be trouble free as such. Especially the aluminium block S/V. Hate those tatty resin/compound/composite S/V's, so that is a nice choice, (in my personal opinion). However, one point I would note is his point on reliability and injector pumps. There is no comprehensive info on any area of the VO usage area as such, merely scattered fragments being, as we speak, built up over time and from personal, (and commercial), experience. The point about people not mentioning problems is negated by the people who have been running successful systems, in all shapes and ratios, for some amount of time. IP problems are almost always related to known limitations or advice as to those/any limitations not being heeded.

So, to put it in short fashion, there is a ***LOT*** of cr@p and blatantly false information bandied around by both 'camps' on this area. One has to be very conservative in what information one trusts. Even sources of information that one trusts can sometimes do/say or even create something that starts you thinking, 'what the chuff?'. That's why I tend to be excessively critical of people who post 'hand picked' information preferable to their needs.


Also, whilst the subjects up, and to give people another prod, get over to Morr's site and start filling in some info on his polls you tardy sods.

http://hiluxsurf.eu/forum/viewforum....23cac7cf814eff

[MattF]

Sorry cant post pictures of system in place at the moment, surf is still in Crete, but I will be driving back first week in October, will do it then.

Heating the fuel lines and tank is not needed in this country, not cold enough however you could add a heated fuel line to the system.

Be nice to see the pics of the system when you can make them available.

p.s: It's not cold enough generally to cause oil gelling/crystallisation? in this country. Doesn't mean heated lines and tank aren't preferable, though.

[MattF]

Apache - you got there before me!

And I'm last to the fray.

[dieselboy]

im running 40 litres veg and 5 litres diesel, and the only thing i get is where i start the truck with no problems - just like its derv. but if i leave it ticking over normally, and i hear the relay stop heating the plugs after however long, about 15 seconds after this i get irregular firing gradually coming in. if i used idle up or if i drive gently right after the relay clicks off i dont notice any difference and i do not get any missing.
what i would like to know is, what sort of temps should i start to reduce the concentration of veg to to diesel.

[mcubbin]

I agree heated lines would be good as would a heated tank, improves the system and means less time running on straight diesel its all a matter of how far you want to go. For those capable of getting involved and contributing to a civilised discussion. have a look at this forum, mostly people trying out various methods, plus a few who no doubt have a vested interest
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/
also a database of drivers who have been using veg oil, only one surf so far but contains usefull information.
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/...base/index.php
And in reply to Capt Beaky who has contributed only "BUll$H1T!" there are numerous forums hin the u.k, the states and australia where you will find examples of problems. And I agree that kit sellers will sell you stuff you dont need I mentioned the electrical preheater in the dieselveg kit think how long a 200 watt heater will take to boil a kettle.
I sourced all the parts for my conversion to achieve an aim, that being to deliver the oil at as high a temp as possible I also wanted components that were at least as good as the toyota components they had to work with.
I also agree that if you are mixing properly and there is a high enough ratio of diesel you are unlikely to have problems, but you are still paying £1 a litre for a significant amount of your fuel. I can run on straight oil, filtered/used if I wish, confident that I will not ruin my engine. If you run your car on anything approaching straight veg oil without some sort of conversion you will have problems.
I have no business selling kits I am a teacher, but I spent a lot of time finding out about this stuff and have put together something that works well, specifically in a Hilux Surf.
I will post pictures in october and I can do a plan of the system for anyone interested.

[MattF]

I have no business selling kits I am a teacher, but I spent a lot of time finding out about this stuff and have put together something that works well, specifically in a Hilux Surf.

It does appear, from the description, a well thought out system. I'd agree on the full front to back heating setup. That probably would only be in the domain of the perfectionist clan, (and additional to), the requirements for a reliable working system. Btw, none of my comments are aimed at deriding or lowering your effort or system. I am merely trying to clarify any grey areas that could be misconstrued, so please don't think any of my posts are intended as anything other than just pedantic clarification of specific points.

Best of wishes with this enterprise, btw. One hopes it does well for you, in regards to generating orders and such. It's nice to see one specifically aimed at the Surf for a change.

[CaptainBeaky]

I look forward to seeing the pictures...

mcubbin - as a teacher you should expect to have any unsupported assertion challenged (although possibly somewhat more politely). I am aware of the potential for SVO to polymerise due to poor atomisation on cold starts, especially at high levels. However, I would recommend looking up a viscosity/concentration graph - IIRC the viscosity falls rapidly from 100% SVO, so you don't need that much derv in the mix to get acceptable cold start performance, whereas the fall in viscosity with temperature is fairly linear - with the implication that blending may be a better route for the low mileage user than heating. Still - don't take my word for it: I'll see if I can find the graph.

I am quite capable of contributing to informed and civilised discussions, but unsupported assertions and appeal to authority arguments get right up my nose...

[Donk_UK]

I have'nt read all of this thread as im too lazy but.. I have been using svo with minimal diesil only when i get caught short and cant be bothered with the messy hassle of filling up. I have been running for over a year now with no problems that i am aware off.

I get the odd bit of chugging within the first 10 mins of driving i presume this is just the injectors getting blocked up as i dont run a dual tank system and therefore cant flush out the injectors with diesil before i turn off my engine. I made a fuel tank heater using some copper pipe (15mm) and using the rear heater matrix water to heat it all up im sure this makes an improvement. But unless you have a dual tank to flush through the injectors I cant see how you can avoid a bit off chug on start up. Maybe you can make a mix but what alot of hassle that is. I just keep a track on the weather if it gets too cold (below 8'C ) i generally stick in a tenner of diesil.

Welcome any comments on what I'm doing, I presume as I have'nt killed it within a year its all ok

[Apache]

It does appear, from the description, a well thought out system. I'd agree on the full front to back heating setup. That probably would only be in the domain of the perfectionist clan, (and additional to), the requirements for a reliable working system. Btw, none of my comments are aimed at deriding or lowering your effort or system. I am merely trying to clarify any grey areas that could be misconstrued, so please don't think any of my posts are intended as anything other than just pedantic clarification of specific points.

Best of wishes with this enterprise, btw. One hopes it does well for you, in regards to generating orders and such. It's nice to see one specifically aimed at the Surf for a change.

I'm not having a go either, but I am a scientist / engineer (whatever's the most fashionable term at the mo) and have spent 21 years in scientific reasearch / aircraft engineering / electronics disciplines. As such, I demand rigorous proof rather than 'if you dont heat the oil you will have problems'.

When people come out with statements such as that, they need to back them up with consistent statistics rather than 'mate in the pub said' (which is the same as a forum really).

Oh, and a 200w heater will be fine at the flow rates we are talking about, as long as the volume you are trying to heat is small. I cant be bothered to do the maths right now as I'm putting together garden furniture between showers, but my instinct tells me that for spot heating at low flow rates (~25mpg), 200w will be more than adequate.

Keep up the experimentation, and be sure to post your results!

[MattF]

but I am a scientist / engineer (whatever's the most fashionable term at the mo)

Everybody terms me a 'sad b@stard'. Should I be getting worried now?

[max6674]

plus all the mixing, another point you must pre mix the diesel and oil, just shoving it in will not mix it.

All what mixing? When I was using a mix I just put it all into the tank and set off tapping on the brakes a couple of times to "mix" the mix up.. worked fine for me.

Heating the fuel lines and tank is not needed in this country, not cold enough however you could add a heated fuel line to the system.

I think that in this country, and this is my personal experience, that a heater somewhere near the filter is a good idea. I have had it where the SVO had been too "thick" and caused the engine waring light to come on when I have run SVO from the engine being cold. Once the engine has warmed up and the heaters are warming the oil well then there has been no issues of this at all.

[MadcapMagician]

All what mixing? When I was using a mix I just put it all into the tank and set off tapping on the brakes a couple of times to "mix" the mix up.. worked fine for me.

Alternatively, do what I do - add oil to the fuel tank with the engine running.

[pops]

Everybody terms me a 'sad b@stard'. Should I be getting worried now?

i DONT
i call you the Northern Ginger Jessie

[pirate-storm]

i used svo n did what others said on here, take it bit by bit n ended up nearly using 100% a couple of times with no probs atall.
not bad for a 16 year old truck the seals didnt leak or nothing only prob i had that time was when skull had probs running with the veg oil i got from a place once n it clogged the fuel filter n blocked the pipes.
changed the fuel filter n ez put airline down the fuel pipe n i was back on the road.
ok i havent used svo or veg oil since but i will be starting again now the weather starting to get warmer i dont use a fuel heater n had no probs except for what i said with blocked fuel filter etc.
not saying i would be able to run it all on svo but will take my time again n if seals leak oh well n done still not bad . svo i believe can swell the seals etc but its just a matter of knowing what you can run n what you cant