Cold start

[Madmart]

I have a problem on cold start which is very interesting. I say cold because in the peak of summer the problem went away. Having replaced all of the glow plugs the engine starts easily. The problem is that I have absolutely no power for the first 10 minutes and it sounds like a tractor.

Is it because the glow plugs are supposed to stay on for a while until the engine is a bit warmer? Maybe the water temp sensor telling the fuel dist that the engine is warm when its not?

any advice very welcome - particularly by those behind me in the morning traffick.

Thanks in advance.

[TonyN]

The glow plugs shouldn't be on when you are running, maybe they ARE staying on and preigniting the fuel to early.

could be a temp sender somewhere, but get the injectors and fuel pump looked at as well.

Has it been 'Redex'ed' lately? maybe just grubby.

[slydog]

plugs

i dont want to conflict this but on most diesels the plugs do stay on by a timer for a set time after the engine has fired some are determined by water temp and others by an electronic timer i have found this information on the internet not sure about the surfs though i know my peugeot diesels were on a timer for a set anount of time mark

[TonyN]

i dont want to conflict this but on most diesels the plugs do stay on by a timer for a set time after the engine has fired some are determined by water temp and others by an electronic timer i have found this information on the internet not sure about the surfs though i know my peugeot diesels were on a timer for a set anount of time mark

You may be right, I've only played with a few diesels as just assumed as the light goes out on the dash even if you start them before its clicked off like usual this must mean they are off when its running.

:waiting for the diesel experts.............:

[rich]

Bosch: Starting diesel engines
Diesel engines rely on the compression of gases to achieve combustion. This is fine in some conditions, however when outdoor temperature is low, or the engine's cold, glow plugs are required to assist starting. Glow plugs reach temperatures of around 850°C and take a while to preheat the engine in readiness for combustion.

PICO:

Glow (or heater) plugs are utilised to aid cold starting, being activated in certain engine conditions. The glow plugs can operate in several ways the most simple being switched on during cranking or while the ignition is switched on. The glow plugs are wired in series and are fed with battery voltage for a set period of time, which is determined by the 'glow plug timer relay'.

The components soon heat to their operating temperature in a matter of seconds and can seen to glow 'white hot' when tested out of the engine. The plug should heat from the tip backwards,(as illustrated in figure 6.2) failure to do this means that the plug needs replacing.

Fig. 6.2

Other systems may remain on until the engine's water temperature reaches a predetermined temperature, while others may operate in a similar way but will be pulsed alternatively in sets of two.

So who knows what the Surf is doing!?

One thing that it does hint at is that the relay is doing the timing.

Rich.

[rich]

One way of checking to see if it is the Glow Plugs is to pull the relay out.

Rich.

[Madmart]

Thanks for all the advice. I ll take a closer look. I thought there was a water temp sensor that had something to do with it but I have no idea where I got this from.

I also thought the relay stepped down in stages. ie full on until start up then warmish for a while to help the engine warmup quickly?

I have now established that the first time you put your foot on the gas pedal it will take off as normal providing it is not pressed on start up or for moving out of a parking space etc. After that it runs with no power for about 5-10 minutes.

I will report back if I sort it out. Thanks to all.

[Nick Green]

cold start

I know your conversation happened a while ago but I just got my car and logged on. It's a 1990 Surf SSR limited in nice nick, but it doesnt like cold mornings. The battery os AOK and will turn the engine over for ages before fading, but the darn thing won't fire. Once it's run even for only a few seconds it starts fine straight away all day long, even if left for a few hours.

The mechanic I deal with tested the glow plugs and realy and reckons its all working as it should (he hasn't seen it on a freezing cold morning yet). A breakdown guy came out one morning and started it with Easy Start. He said he thought the starter relay isnt keeping the plugs on long enough or giving enough voltage, ot that the injectors are clogged and not atomising the fuel properly. I ran injector cleaner through it and revved the stones off to clear anything away but it hasn't made any difference. She still don't like cold mornings!

[Koi]

I know your conversation happened a while ago but I just got my car and logged on. It's a 1990 Surf SSR limited in nice nick, but it doesnt like cold mornings. The battery os AOK and will turn the engine over for ages before fading, but the darn thing won't fire. Once it's run even for only a few seconds it starts fine straight away all day long, even if left for a few hours.

The mechanic I deal with tested the glow plugs and realy and reckons its all working as it should (he hasn't seen it on a freezing cold morning yet). A breakdown guy came out one morning and started it with Easy Start. He said he thought the starter relay isnt keeping the plugs on long enough or giving enough voltage, ot that the injectors are clogged and not atomising the fuel properly. I ran injector cleaner through it and revved the stones off to clear anything away but it hasn't made any difference. She still don't like cold mornings!

Bottle of redex to 1/4 tank of fuel then a good run to clean the injectors. Check the glow plug fuse, under the bonnet drivers side black box take the lid off 80A fuse.
You say your mechanic checked the plugs, all of them?? they only cost about £6 each so it won't be a bad idea to change them any way, only takes one to break down and it will be hard to start.

[mark burrows]

I had the same trouble with mine last year,it turned out to be a fault in one of the glow plugs causing a short and blowing one of the fuseale links,hope this helps.

Regards
Mark.

[gemini]

I know your conversation happened a while ago but I just got my car and logged on. It's a 1990 Surf SSR limited in nice nick, but it doesnt like cold mornings. The battery os AOK and will turn the engine over for ages before fading, but the darn thing won't fire. Once it's run even for only a few seconds it starts fine straight away all day long, even if left for a few hours.

The mechanic I deal with tested the glow plugs and realy and reckons its all working as it should (he hasn't seen it on a freezing cold morning yet). A breakdown guy came out one morning and started it with Easy Start. He said he thought the starter relay isnt keeping the plugs on long enough or giving enough voltage, ot that the injectors are clogged and not atomising the fuel properly. I ran injector cleaner through it and revved the stones off to clear anything away but it hasn't made any difference. She still don't like cold mornings!

its rarely the injectors at fault when it wont start, its usually the plugs, especially when its cold as it wont start without heat, best thing to do is take one out re-connect it to the wire, earth it on the head and turn the ignition on, see if it glows and how long for, if it glows you know the timer is working, then test the other three, dont use easy start on a good engine as they come to rely on it, plus it does them no good whatsoever, that mechanic just wanted to get you going and get away, easy start is for engines that wont start at all in winter under normal circumstances, like worn engines without enough compression to start them even though the glowplugs are working

[gemini]

Thanks for all the advice. I ll take a closer look. I thought there was a water temp sensor that had something to do with it but I have no idea where I got this from.

I also thought the relay stepped down in stages. ie full on until start up then warmish for a while to help the engine warmup quickly?

I have now established that the first time you put your foot on the gas pedal it will take off as normal providing it is not pressed on start up or for moving out of a parking space etc. After that it runs with no power for about 5-10 minutes.

I will report back if I sort it out. Thanks to all.

the water temp sensor is used on some engines, is connects to the pump via a wire which tightens as the engine cools, this is a cold start device which increases the idle speed when its cold, it slackens off as the engine warms up

[Nick Green]

Thanks.

It's cold today so I'll be having fun out there trying to get it started.

I guess I'll change all the plugs and check the fuse to start with and see what happens from there!

[stara]

before you try to start it, check the primer on the fuel filter is still stiff, if not, this shows a small fuel line leak allowing fuel to drain back to the tank causing a small air lock, this will also cause diffuculty in starting after standing over-night,

[skiper210]

I think you have a problem starting on a cold day as you have a very small air leak, allowing your fuel to loose pressure to the pump, check for leaks.