Stuck in the mud....

[Albannach]

Ha, for some reason I can't see images in the forum, so I thought that photo might have uploaded properly. My bad

I'm a little confused; does a diff lock then not lock the wheels together? I thought the point of 4wd was that you had drive to all 4 wheels? Whats the point of having it then if when in ground like this you only get 2wd due to the diff? In my case, I had someone with me and they were able to tell me that neither of the front wheels were spinning at all, but both rear wheels were. This was obvious when I looked myself as the rear wheels had buried themselves but the front ones were sitting nicely on top of the ground and weren't caked in mud like the rears.

What makes you think you have one of those?

[richied]

Hey albannach thanks for the picture. Thats the one I bought. The only reason I thought I had a diff lock was because of some of the forum threads I read; it seemed that if in L4 or H4 the diff lock was engaged. I know other wagons have a button on the dash to engage it, but in my ignorance I took it that it was automatic on the gen 3 when one of these two gears was selected. Obviously then I don't have a diff lock. So, if I'm getting this right, a four wheel drive vehicle isn't actually four wheel drive, unless you have traction under all four wheels, or no traction at all on any wheel, in which case they should all spin and still you get nowhere. So even though my front wheels have traction, the vehicle is sending all the drive to the two rear wheels that dont have any traction. That doesnt make a lick of sense!

Look I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me but enough of the repremanding. It was reasonable to assume that a 4 wheel drive vehicle will give you drive to all four wheels, if you didnt know any better. The comments about my 'common sense' and being 'silly' aren't necessary, or helpful.

[Maverick]

Disclaimer :- The following has the ability of being completely wrong.

Your asumption is in my mind correct. The only way I could see all the drive going to the rear wheels without any of the front wheels moving is if the 4wd is broken or the centre diff is open causing the transfer box to send all the power to the place of least resistance (spinning back wheels). Now I've not owned a third gen but I believe you have the option of having the diff open so you can drive in 4wd on tarmac, which us second gen owners can't. Which I think would produce the senario you have described. With the diff locked (as it always is in a second gen) you should (in my understanding) always get some drive to the front.

Now if one (or both) rear wheel has no traction, and one front wheel has no traction, all the power will take the path of least resistance and go to the spinning wheel. In order to maintain movement you must have traction on both wheels of one axle.

So in my opinion (which could be completey and utterly wrong), you have:-

a) Wrong 4wd setting selected.
b) Broken 4wd.
or
c) one of your front wheels were also spinning, but not enougth to damage the surface.

[adpsimpson]

If there's a field beside your mums... surely there's someone around with a tractor or other large 4x4? Is it still in the field? Just knock on a farmer's door and offer them a 6-pack of guiness for a tow - they're nice people really

Oh, and don't take the berating too personally. We all live and learn (even from other people's mistakes!). Get it out, then head out somewhere with folk who can show you how to use the machine.

[TonyN]

assuming its a multi mode 4wd 3rd gen, not a part time 4wd one, you do have a diff lock, its in the transfer case.

L4L and H4L are tranfer case diff locked, constant 50-50 power split to both axles, just like a 2nd Gen part time system. (unlike you said in quote, this is wrong)
H4 is AWD, with the center diff unlocked, but this lets you drive on the road in '4wd' (this will give the symptoms you posted below) as the power to axle varies, so you can go round corners!
H2 is just rear wheel drive.

The 3rd gen 4wd is just like a LR Discovery, Rangy, etc.. but with a 2WD option too. You must have it in H4L or L4L when offroading properly. or the center diff will send power to the axle with least traction, just like the diffs in the axles send power to wheel with least traction.

Don't sweat the 'being silly' comments, lets face it, you were. Kinda important to know how to use 4wd, if going offroading. But it dosn't matter.

Hey albannach thanks for the picture. Thats the one I bought. The only reason I thought I had a diff lock was because of some of the forum threads I read; it seemed that if in L4 or H4 the diff lock was engaged. I know other wagons have a button on the dash to engage it, but in my ignorance I took it that it was automatic on the gen 3 when one of these two gears was selected. Obviously then I don't have a diff lock. So, if I'm getting this right, a four wheel drive vehicle isn't actually four wheel drive, unless you have traction under all four wheels, or no traction at all on any wheel, in which case they should all spin and still you get nowhere. So even though my front wheels have traction, the vehicle is sending all the drive to the two rear wheels that dont have any traction. That doesnt make a lick of sense!

Look I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me but enough of the repremanding. It was reasonable to assume that a 4 wheel drive vehicle will give you drive to all four wheels, if you didnt know any better. The comments about my 'common sense' and being 'silly' aren't necessary, or helpful.

[richied]

Thanks guys, but everything you just told me is exactly what I had assumed in the first place before getting stuck. From the moment I left the road and entered the field I was in L4, low ratio, 4wd, diff locked (if I indeed do have one). Figuring out the second lever was not rocket science. I drove a 4x4 years ago in the snow in Tahoe, in the low ratio, and never lost traction once, so I was familiar with the operation of the second lever and 4wd. However this incident caused me to question everything I thought I knew. I was right in thinking it was odd that only my rears were spinning. I'm just looking for confirmation from the experts that something is up with the beast before I take it to a mechanic. The facts are:
1. I was in the L4 low ratio setting, symbol on dash blinking, the whole time.
2. I got stuck, checked and only rears spinning.
3. Tried all the other settings of the second lever, including reverse. Still only rears spinning.
4. Laughed and called my mate to tell him what a spanner I was.
5. Had shovel (burying a cat) so dug a lot of the shite away from the wheels. Got enough timber to build a wicker man, and shoved it in, around the wheels (rear and front).
6. No joy. Cursed, spat and waved fist at God.
7. Chastized myself for having bought a lemon.
8. Gave up. My feet were very cold. Wellies hath no thermal properties.

So...do I bring this git of a truck to a mechanic, or am I just a spanner who needs to be castrated so the world doesn't get infected with his stupidity?

[TonyN]

blinking lights on 4wd display are 4wd not selected yet sign, you need the lights on perminantly.


LOL, if you'd said that in the beginning this would have been easier...



sometimes it just take awhile to sort its self out, then lights go on, usually if 4wd hasn't been used for years, otherwise its broken.

[richied]

aha!!!

[richied]

I let most of the air out of the rear tyres and will some brute force managed to drive it out of the hole. The four wheel symbol on the dash flashes when I select 4wd and after a second or two it stays on. The circle in the centre goes yellow in the low gears and stays green in the high gear selection. So it would seem that my surf is working fine then? Strange about the front wheels. I was on loose gravel today, so, in low 4wd, I popped the clutch and gave it welly, but only the rears skidded the stones (I'm not even sure that's a proper sentence...). I found out today that there's a mechanic near my place that is well known for his 4wd knowledge, and has a surf himself. I'm going to get him to give it a look over.

You lot have been great. Thanks for all the help. Question: Has anyone ever put double wheels on one of these things?

[legendgamesmaster]

double wheels

yep, mine has.
two on the front, two on the back

well..... someone had to say it.

dont fret about getting stuck, m8. I've towed my mates hilux pickup out of mud twice with the surf. hes a forestry worker, and only got stuck because two wheels were in very boggy ground, two on dry - the boggy ones spin and he goes no-where.

cant be helped unless you get fully locked diffs, which (correct me someone [and they will im sure]) you dont / cant get for a standard surf.

hey, i got stuck in a ford once (no, a river crossing, not a capri or a ka), and they all took the p1ss here. b4stards. I even had to be towed out by a landrover, that was even more p1ss taking. double b4stards, but they mean well, this lot, and theres a shed load of knowledge here too.

[chrisinflight]

Hi there,
Well done on your adventure! What better way to learn lots quickly by playing around in a field. Get out there and go for it! Just go only where you are legal and take someone with you.
cheers,