Using HI 4WD full-time?

[susukino]

Hello there. At some point over the next 12-18 months I'm thinking of buying a 4x4 for my house in Wales, which is at the end of a long, unsurfaced and rutted track through a wood, with a ford halfway along. The track is passable in a supermini but you get a clonk or two to the underside and it will slip and slide if you're not careful where you put it (and sometimes even when you are careful). Furthermore when there is heavy rain the ford is not passable in a normal car as it can get to 18" depth within an hour. Hence my desire for one car in the family with a decent wading depth and preferably 4x4 to cope with the treacherous sections of the track.

As reliability and comfort are the main criteria, Land Rovers and their ilk are out. I don't want a soft-roader as I am skeptical they could deal with the ford. Given a fairly tight budget the leading candidates are imported Surfs (3rd gen) and Land Cruisers (Prado). Ideally I would like the 4WD to be on all the time because every single trip we make will begin and end with the track, which is where we need the 4WD the most. It's quite possible that I or the missus would forget to switch off the 4WD once we get on public roads, so I want a vehicle that can take full-time 4WD without damage. As the local roads are narrow there is a lot of driving on slippery verges and many of our friends live down similary challenging tracks - again, permanent 4WD would be useful at such times.

This set of requirements sort of points to the Land Cruiser, but would the Surf be an option with 3G models? I know it has the centre diff and thus can be used on road in Hi 4WD but would having HI 4WD permanently engaged have a damaging effect on the mechanicals? Am I better off simply going for the LC - which looks to be more expensive for a similar age and mileage - and forgetting about the otherwise worthy Surf?

Any advice appreciated.

Suss

[white akita]

surfs cant be used in 4wd permanently, so buy a lc.

[Antshiel]

Yes they can, Read again!!

[Antshiel]

Hello there. At some point over the next 12-18 months I'm thinking of buying a 4x4 for my house in Wales, which is at the end of a long, unsurfaced and rutted track through a wood, with a ford halfway along. The track is passable in a supermini but you get a clonk or two to the underside and it will slip and slide if you're not careful where you put it (and sometimes even when you are careful). Furthermore when there is heavy rain the ford is not passable in a normal car as it can get to 18" depth within an hour. Hence my desire for one car in the family with a decent wading depth and preferably 4x4 to cope with the treacherous sections of the track.

As reliability and comfort are the main criteria, Land Rovers and their ilk are out. I don't want a soft-roader as I am skeptical they could deal with the ford. Given a fairly tight budget the leading candidates are imported Surfs (3rd gen) and Land Cruisers (Prado). Ideally I would like the 4WD to be on all the time because every single trip we make will begin and end with the track, which is where we need the 4WD the most. It's quite possible that I or the missus would forget to switch off the 4WD once we get on public roads, so I want a vehicle that can take full-time 4WD without damage. As the local roads are narrow there is a lot of driving on slippery verges and many of our friends live down similary challenging tracks - again, permanent 4WD would be useful at such times.

This set of requirements sort of points to the Land Cruiser, but would the Surf be an option with 3G models? I know it has the centre diff and thus can be used on road in Hi 4WD but would having HI 4WD permanently engaged have a damaging effect on the mechanicals? Am I better off simply going for the LC - which looks to be more expensive for a similar age and mileage - and forgetting about the otherwise worthy Surf?

Any advice appreciated.

Suss

With the third gens you can have the 4wd on as often or continuous as you wish with no ill affect. That's what the centre diff is for. Good luck
and welcome to the forum.

[white akita]

oh yeah forgot the 3rd gens can !

[susukino]

With the third gens you can have the 4wd on as often or continuous as you wish with no ill affect. That's what the centre diff is for. Good luck
and welcome to the forum.

Thanks, that was my assumption too. Then I came across this quote in another thread:

"Be careful tho if you are driving though patches of slippery stuff and good traction, if you turn too many corners you could cause the transmission to 'wind up' and this would eventually lead to a loud noise and something in the drive train breaking".

[EDIT - sorry he was not talking about 3G Surfs but somebody else's 2G so that renders this post redundant.] I would have thought that if the centre diff was there this simply would not be a problem, but this post suggests that HI 4WD has restrictions on usage i.e. its "sort of OK". Is this just a misunderstanding on the part of the poster?

Thanks
Suss

[muller1]

3 Gen Surf Centre Diff.

With a centre diff it is no problem to leave the transmission in 4 wd for ever.
ie. never take it out of 4 wd.
The landcruiser has a centre diff also but the only difference is that a control to disconnect the 4wd is not supplied as it is in permenant 4wd.
The 3rd Generation Surf has a button to put it in and out as you wish.
No harm will come to it if you leave it in 4wd, this will show on the dash as the 4 wheels showing green and the centre diff light OUT
If you put the 4wd drive in with the lever, this will also lock the centre diff then it is not a good idea to run for any time on a hard road surface with the diff locked.
This is shown on the dash by the centre diff light showing orange, and the 4 wheels showing green

Mike

[Apache]

Is the Prado the LC90? If so, isn't it just a 3rd gen with a different bodyshell on it anyway?

BTW, you should be able to cope in RWD only along most tracks, you dont REALLY need 4WD until the going gets VERY iffy. I've done loads of green lanes in RWD without realising. Its surprising what the Surf can do!

However, as 3rd gens can now be had for £3k upwards, and you want the comfort of a family car, it would be a better choice for you than a 2nd gen which is a little more - erm - agricultural

[susukino]

If you put the 4wd drive in with the lever, this will also lock the centre diff then it is not a good idea to run for any time on a hard road surface with the diff locked.
This is shown on the dash by the centre diff light showing orange, and the 4 wheels showing green
Mike

Thanks for this comment - I hadn't considered the issue of locked diff.

Suss

[Apache]

Thanks for this comment - I hadn't considered the issue of locked diff.

Suss

It should also be noted that lanes will NEVER require a locked diff, unless something has gone VERY wrong and you are trying to get yourself out of an unfortunate situation!

<edit> Just as examples, this was in RWD only as due to a senior moment I'd forgotten to lock my front hubs



And when I go to play on the wasteland at work, I cant be bothered locking the hubs cos I know I can get round in RWD if its not too wet.





So dont automatically assume you need 4WD all the time, as most of the time you wont, even in places where an ordinary car would be wrecked.

[KERRSURF]

surfs cant be used in 4wd permanently, so buy a lc.

Thank goodness there are people on here who read 'all' of the posts and 'know' what they are talking about.

[white akita]

ha i do read all of the posts but i guess im not quick enough to take it all in !
will have to slow myself down

[TonyN]

I would be quite happy running a 2nd Gen in 4WD in these circumstances. It'll be OK, or you could still just select 4wd as and when if you don't need it all the time, thats the whole point of the 2nd Gen Surfs ADD shift-on-the-fly system.

But like Apache says, you'd be suprised how often you don't need 4wd anyway, just decent tyres. We did 2 plains trip last year without a front diff in Linda's truck, and went mostly eveywhere everyone else did.
Part time 4wd trucks aren't going fall apart the minute you put it in 4wd on the road, there is room for a little leeway, just a wet road is slippery enough to let one wheel skip unless you have really good tyres and avoid lock up of the axles, its just its not what they are designed for and you need to be aware of the problems it could cause.

Hello there. At some point over the next 12-18 months I'm thinking of buying a 4x4 for my house in Wales, which is at the end of a long, unsurfaced and rutted track through a wood, with a ford halfway along. The track is passable in a supermini but you get a clonk or two to the underside and it will slip and slide if you're not careful where you put it (and sometimes even when you are careful). Furthermore when there is heavy rain the ford is not passable in a normal car as it can get to 18" depth within an hour. Hence my desire for one car in the family with a decent wading depth and preferably 4x4 to cope with the treacherous sections of the track.

Suss

[susukino]

But like Apache says, you'd be suprised how often you don't need 4wd anyway, just decent tyres. We did 2 plains trip last year without a front diff in Linda's truck, and went mostly eveywhere everyone else did.

Thank you for these comments. I would certainly say that in this case the problem is wading depth and ground clearance rather than the absence of 4WD. On the other hand, both the supermini and a Volvo estate have showed a tendency to fishtail on the slippery bits so 4WD would doubtless help at times.

Ultimately the issue is not - as it might be on an offroad course - whether the vehicle can get us through safely. Unless the ford is up we always get through. The issue is whether we get up and down the track quickly, easily and confidently. In a supermini during the wetter months of the year the track can be unsettling. In a 4x4, even with road-biased tyres, it should be stress-free. That's the plan anyway!

Cheers
Suss

[plumb bob]

I think you'll find that most of your problems are tyre based, as previously said, the surf will go places in 2wd that "normal" cars won't, but look at the tyres they have.

By the sound of it you'd be best with a 3rd gen, as (AFAIK) the prado IS the same running gear as a 3rd gen, just a different body shell bolted on.

Get a 3rd gen with a set of good quality all terrain tyres and you'll not regret it.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not sure if they made a 3rd gen in manual, but don't bother, get an auto, much less work on and off road.