Heater Problem (absolutely stumped)

[24Seven]

Hello all, First post (K Reg Hi-Lux 4 door pick-up 2.8 non turbo diesel)

I have a problem with my heater, which is foxing me.

I'm absolutely stumped on this one, every test I try say's it should be working but it's not, I do seem to have a flow of hot water through the matrix, so I am thinking I may have a fault with the Vent Controls?


It seems I have (all mechanical)

One control for recycling the air inside the car or have fresh air, another that controls where the flow goes and a 3rd that controls the amount of heat.

The one that controls the heat has a cable that goes to the heater valve, which does open and close and the heater valve is opening for sure (this is where I thought was going to be the fault)

The slider for the heater, never felt as though it opened anything other, there was and is a smooth movement from hot to cold.



Does anyone know for sure if the heater slider also controls if the air flow goes through the heater matrex box or does the normal cold air flow through the matrex box anway?

Thanks very much for any advise

[TonyN]

the temperature slider is all that shuts off the water flow, you probably have a plugged matrix. Pull the hose of the valve first to make sure you've got water going to it, them pull the hose off the other side to make sure the flap hasn't broken interally, then pull the hose off the out side of the matrix the check flow through the matrix.

Even if the direction controller is broken, you'll have hot air coming out of somewhere if the matrix is OK. Try flushing the matrix with a hose, from either end to loosen any rubbish in there.

Is the fan working?

Or you could have an air lock and water is not pumping through the matrix.

[Simon.O.]

Hello all, First post (K Reg Hi-Lux 4 door pick-up 2.8 non turbo diesel)

It seems I have (all mechanical)

One control for recycling the air inside the car or have fresh air, another that controls where the flow goes and a 3rd that controls the amount of heat.

The one that controls the heat has a cable that goes to the heater valve, which does open and close and the heater valve is opening for sure (this is where I thought was going to be the fault)

The slider for the heater, never felt as though it opened anything other, there was and is a smooth movement from hot to cold.

Does anyone know for sure if the heater slider also controls if the air flow goes through the heater matrex box or does the normal cold air flow through the matrex box anway?

I'm a little confused here.....o.k maybe I'm a little slow on the uptake
The heat slider blue to red ususlly only controls how much hot water is allowed to circulate through the heater core(matrix)
Fan lever is fan speed
The recirc lever activates a flap-type vent theat changes between fresh or recirculated air.....ok so that was a bit obvious

I am reading that your problem is with the feet/windscreen/ etc control??
On mine this feels firmish as you slide it along and can feel the indents at each position. I have yet to pull the whole unit apart (and hope I never have to) but I get the feeling that it is cable drive to a set of flap-valves behind the centre console. I can see the side of mind and there are lots of bits involved. When I move the slider I can see these bits move and you can in fact hear them when the engine is off.

So to cut a long story short ( you all breathe a sigh of relief ) If your distribution control is very smooth with little or no resistance then I would suspect a disconnected / broken control cable.

Hope that helps.

[24Seven]

Thanks for the reply's Guys.

I will give you the whole story.

At the beginning of the summer I had the cam belt replaced, I'm sure the Rad came out at the time, after I'm sure the heater worked though.

I have done so far.

checked the Matrix is not blocked (used a garden hose and pushed through water both ways) the valve is opening, when removing the hoses either side of the matrix I get a flow, the water is hot.

I do have a flow through the matrix and the water is piping hot, I removed the inlet and the outlet pipes again and I have a flow.

I have removed the hoses and have seen that the valve is fully open, I'm 100% sure it's not the valve.

I know it makes know sense, if the matrix is hot then heat should come out of the air vents, I get next to nothing even today with the outside temp at 20c plus. (yes the fan does work)

I have just tried

He's probably got an airlock. Make sure heater control is in open/hot position, then with engine cold, remove rad cap and start engine and allow to tick over. Watch the water level, which should drop slightly as water is moved around the heater circuit and forces air out. Run for about 5 mins until water starts to heat and then stop engine, allow to cool and top up radiator to base of rad cap filler neck with appropriate coolant. Refit cap and try out. NB: Never take off the rads cap with the engine hot, unless you want a trip to Casualty!!

From This thread

My water level never dropped and could feel the inlet and outlet pipes from the matrix getting hot.

I have even removed the outlet pipe from the matrix to where the pipe rejoins the cooling circuit and I had a flow there, I'm baffled

I have had this truck for over five years and had to repair the heater matrix a few years ago and don't fancy having to remove 1/2 the dash again, if I don't have to.

[Simon.O.]

I know it makes know sense, if the matrix is hot then heat should come out of the air vents, I get next to nothing even today with the outside temp at 20c plus. (yes the fan does work)

Heater matrix gets hot + fan goes = hot air going somewhere

This brings me back to the distribution control.
With the fan going can you get all the functions
Air blowing up the windscreen
At feet
Face and feet
Windscreen and feet
Face only...........without going outside I think that tese are all the functions that I have.
If you can get cold/ambient air to go to all these places but not hot then I am buggered if I know where the problem is.

[24Seven]

Heater matrix gets hot + fan goes = hot air going somewhere

This brings me back to the distribution control.
With the fan going can you get all the functions
Air blowing up the windscreen
At feet
Face and feet
Windscreen and feet
Face only...........without going outside I think that tese are all the functions that I have.
If you can get cold/ambient air to go to all these places but not hot then I am buggered if I know where the problem is.

Well, my distribution control does not work, it's set to front screen top vents, but it's always been like than for a few years.

The only thing I can think of, is than the heater slider control as well as opening the heater valve (under the bonnet) also controls a flap that opens the heater matrex box.

I did think that the normal airflow goes through the box with the matrix? The only difference is either the matrix is hot or cold, so I did not think it would be anything to do with the vent controls, but I'm running out of idea's


(I'm having a good look around this forum, very interesting, I like the look of the past trip to Salisbury Plains)

[TonyN]

How hot is the water coming out the matrix, if its not cooler to feel than the water going in, I'd say at least half the matrix is plugged, and the hot is just flowing across a few tubes and them coming out again.

See if you can get an arm up the lower heater openings, and feel the bottom of the matrix.

[24Seven]

How hot is the water coming out the matrix, if its not cooler to feel than the water going in, I'd say at least half the matrix is plugged, and the hot is just flowing across a few tubes and them coming out again.

See if you can get an arm up the lower heater openings, and feel the bottom of the matrix.

Yes I will do that and also give the matrix a good flush through tonight at work, I must admit I only pushed a little water through, just to see if it was not blocked, I never thought that the water might be passing right through the top of the matrix, the water that came out did seem clear without any bits in it.

Thanks very much for the idea's Guys, much appreciated

[24Seven]

Gave the matrix a good flush through both ways, the water ran clean the whole time, do signs of any dirt.

Started up and the pipes got hot but still no heat I could not reach the matrix to feel the bottom.

A mechanic friend who knows the whole story is saying change the thermostat, I really cannot see it being that though.

I have run out of ideas now.

[fatfires]

Gave the matrix a good flush through both ways, the water ran clean the whole time, do signs of any dirt.

Started up and the pipes got hot but still no heat I could not reach the matrix to feel the bottom.

A mechanic friend who knows the whole story is saying change the thermostat, I really cannot see it being that though.

I have run out of ideas now.

Hi
have used central heating system cleaner (suitable for aluminium) VITAL, once circulated for a while, couple of days - hot - good system flush re fill with flock type cleaner in water. Fernox make it, available from plumbers merchants
If they try to sell you anything else I would stick out for the Fernox product as it is better and safe with ali
give that a day or so - good flush then fill with water to test before spending cash on coolant
It should make your water works clean as a preverbial whistle and also neutralise any nasties you may have in there, give it a good check as cleaning sometimes opens up any leaks you may have that were silted up
finally clean out the header tank
should help
Tony

[24Seven]

Hi
have used central heating system cleaner (suitable for aluminium) VITAL, once circulated for a while, couple of days - hot - good system flush re fill with flock type cleaner in water. Fernox make it, available from plumbers merchants
If they try to sell you anything else I would stick out for the Fernox product as it is better and safe with ali
give that a day or so - good flush then fill with water to test before spending cash on coolant
It should make your water works clean as a preverbial whistle and also neutralise any nasties you may have in there, give it a good check as cleaning sometimes opens up any leaks you may have that were silted up
finally clean out the header tank
should help
Tony

Hello Tony, I'm sure you and TonyN are correct and the Matrex is full of crud.

Can you have a look Here when you have a spare moment, is the Fernox Product DS-40? and I'm sorry to keep on, but whats a "flock type cleaner" ?

I so so much do not want to take the Matrex out of the car as I have done it before and IMO it's a nightmare job.


Thanks very much again for your in-put Guys

[fatfires]

Hello Tony, I'm sure you and TonyN are correct and the Matrex is full of crud.

Can you have a look Here when you have a spare moment, is the Fernox Product DS-40? and I'm sorry to keep on, but whats a "flock type cleaner" ?

I so so much do not want to take the Matrex out of the car as I have done it before and IMO it's a nightmare job.


Thanks very much again for your in-put Guys

Hi
DS40 is A very powerfull cleaner and I am not sure if it is suitable for systems with ali in - it even comes with a neutraliser (it is either acid based -alcalied newtraliser or the other way round!)
Since I last used them it looks as though they have amalgamated 2 products together under the name of 'heavy duty restorer'
they used to do a 'commisioning cleaner' and a product called 'superfloc'
these appear to have been combined, I have found their tech department very helpfull in the past but havn't used them for a while and cant locate their number, perhaps plumbworld can provide
hope this helps
Tony

[24Seven]

Hi
DS40 is A very powerfull cleaner and I am not sure if it is suitable for systems with ali in - it even comes with a neutraliser (it is either acid based -alcalied newtraliser or the other way round!)
Since I last used them it looks as though they have amalgamated 2 products together under the name of 'heavy duty restorer'
they used to do a 'commisioning cleaner' and a product called 'superfloc'
these appear to have been combined, I have found their tech department very helpfull in the past but havn't used them for a while and cant locate their number, perhaps plumbworld can provide
hope this helps
Tony

Thanks Tony, Furnox Tec Spec Here states it's OK for Ali, but to leave it in the system for 4 hours only.

I think I will try mixing up a small amount with hot water and just doing the matrex, I guess the hardest bit will be getting enough water out of it to get some in.

Then I will leave it in there for a couple of hours and see what happens and repeat as needed. I don't really have much to lose really. I'm a little scared of running it through the whole system tbh.

I guess the matrex will only hold a couple of pints of water, so I will only use a very small amount.

[fatfires]

Thanks Tony, Furnox Tec Spec Here states it's OK for Ali, but to leave it in the system for 4 hours only.

I think I will try mixing up a small amount with hot water and just doing the matrex, I guess the hardest bit will be getting enough water out of it to get some in.

Then I will leave it in there for a couple of hours and see what happens and repeat as needed. I don't really have much to lose really. I'm a little scared of running it through the whole system tbh.

I guess the matrex will only hold a couple of pints of water, so I will only use a very small amount.

I dont see what you have to loose by cleaning the whole system, the 'weak' point is the ali (head) but if you clean the lot, circulate it hot and remember to drain the block via the tap on n/s and through the rad as well then you will take away the risk of other sh1t elsewhere in the system finding it's way into your matrix later Make sure you neutralise, I believe they supply test papers to check and then use the H D restorer and leave that in for a few days, that is a non evasive cleaner, it works by floculation? action - as it was explained to me it changes the density of the water and holds any solids in suspention so that they will flush easilly - hose off drain plug wide open!
I have successfully cleaned old heating systems that were choked with **** with flock, after letting it circulate hot for a few days
Remember as your cooling system is way smaller than a heating system dont be tempted to make your mix too powerfull, you can allways hit it more than once
with the cleaner the most inportant thing is not to exceed the contact time and to ensure that all is neutral after by good clean water flushing. To ensure you are looking at the right neutral reading take a test of your Tap water before you start
If you dont get a good supply of test papers with the cleaner (or if you dont get any!) let me know asap as I have a supply of pH1 - pH11 test papers and you are welcome to some I will need to know before Sat as I am away for a week, you can allways email me your address.
I reccon the ammount you will end up with 1 batch of each you could allways share the cost of the cleaner with others who want to do the same (dont forget my commision!!!!!
regards
Tony

[24Seven]

Thanks for the kind offer Tony I do have some PH test papers already.

I will have a play over the weekend and let you know how I get on.