3rd Gen - Dead when trying to start up.

[lightningad]

Got in the car today and it refuses to start. No turn over, and the lights all appear very dim. Central locking also started to fail.

Checked the battery and it shows a charge of 12.7v. Put it on charge for 8 hours just in case.

Also noticed that one of the cables attached to the positive terminal had corroded and broken off. Stripped it back and clamped it under a different bolt on the positive terminal as the bolt it was connected with had stuck solid.
"A" is where the cable was initially connected, "B" is where it is now.

Tried to start the car after 8 hours on the charger but the car is still dead.
When the batt was reconnected i could hear the fuel system priming itself. But when trying the ignition, nothing. Even the dashboard lights look very dim and quickly fade.

Checked the fuses under the bonnet and they all look fine.

Any ideas what could be the problem, or what i can do to fix it? I'm stumped!
adam

[andyverran]

What happens to the voltage when you try to start it?

Do you have the tool to load test the battery?

Have you checked the electrolyte level in the battery?

That level of corrosion around the pillar seal would be indicative of a battery near/at the end of it's life. Can you see the date codes on it?

...and lastly, have you checked the state of earth connections to the body and the engine?

Nearly forgot, I assume you've removed that terminal and cleaned it up?

[BUSHWHACKER]

First of all, shame on you for letting your battery terminals get in that condition.

Did you remove the battery before charging it?

Second, what voltage is the battery now after the charge?

Is there any fluid in the battery?

Is the negative cable on the battery clean and secure both ends?

Also, the sound you heard when reconnecting the battery is the ABS pump. You shouldn't be able to hear it when connecting the battery unless the ignition was on.
If the ignition wasn't on, then you have a voltage drain somewhere.

[lightningad]

Thanks Bushwhacker....i know - i havent been under the bonnet for ages and didnt realise the corrosion was like that!

I couldn't remove the positive terminal as the bolt has seized and was in danger of grinding the hex off. So i removed the negative wires before connecting the charger.

Fluid level in battery looks fine.

The voltage is ...12.57v


The negative cable is secure to the battery, but i am not sure where the other end goes!
I dont think the ignition was on when the ABS primed itself.
Any idea how i check for a voltage drain?
Would a voltage drain explain the lack of any reaction when turning the ignition?

[lightningad]

Hi Andy - thanks for the suggestions.

i will try to get hold of a replacement bolt for the terminal before trying to remove it. I know the bolt will be unusable once its off!

Earth connections? no - not checked those. Any idea where they will be?

The battery is about 6-7 years old.

I dont have anyway to test the battery load.

I havent tried watching the meter whilst rtying to start up. I'll try tomorrow when i get home.

[andyverran]

I'd start by removing and cleaning those terminals, both + and -, then follow the -ve cable and ensure the other end has a rust free connection.

That may be all it needs....

Though at 7 years old it's potentially past it anyway (8 year life is about the lot on a good battery brand).

With 6 cells, a '12v' battery at 2.2v per cell should be producing 13.2v when not charging (13.5v - 14v charging).

[BUSHWHACKER]

Also, disconnect that yellow wire that you re-connected, I see it has an in-line fuse so it's only an accessory of some sort (spotlights?) and could be the source of the drain due to a knackered relay.

The negative cable on the battery just bolts to the inner wing.

[lightningad]

this might sound like a complete novice question (but then i am!) - whats the best way to clean up battery terminals and connectors?

[andyverran]

this might sound like a complete novice question (but then i am!) - whats the best way to clean up battery terminals and connectors?

http://www.wikihow.com/Clean-Battery...n-and-Build-Up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-VSeEEy_T4

Though I'd disconnect them, can't clean them properly without, the guy in the second vid I disagree with there.

[lightningad]

right - i disconnected that yellow cable. I think you may be right about it being for the spotlihts. they havent worked for a while (never really used them anyway!)

Tried to turn it over, but all that happens is all the interior lights (overhead and dashboard) all dim to nothing. I could also hear something whir in the engine bay, but i dont know what.

Checked the -ve connections and they look solid.

Put the battery back on charge overnight, and i'll try in the morning to see if anything has improved.

[BUSHWHACKER]

Remove both terminal connections before charging, then check the voltage in the morning before re-connecting.

There could be a problem with the alternator and by removing the positive cable, it will isolate it.

[lightningad]

Like i mentioned earlier, I cant remove the clamp as the bolt is buggered. I dont have a replacement, and will have to go find one tomorrow.

will it be a problem if only one terminal is connected?

[BUSHWHACKER]

Like i mentioned earlier, I cant remove the clamp as the bolt is buggered. I dont have a replacement, and will have to go find one tomorrow.

will it be a problem if only one terminal is connected?

Yes, if there's a problem with the alternator (diode pack? voltage regulator?)the charge won't be going into the battery properly.

Just a normal M6 nut and bolt is all you need, or a new clamp from Halfords or similar.

[Tig]

As already stated, you need to get behind BOTH terminals & clean them up...that should be your first port of call.

Problems associated with poor battery connection usually confine themselves to the earth, however, live terminals can sometimes cause the odd issue too.

As Vince pointed out, all you need is an M6 nut/bolt, if the original shears then replace it & if not then all is good.....remove all furring with an abrasive, such as scotchbrite or the likes (careful not to get the stuff in your eyes), then smooth a little Vaseline (petroleum Spirit) over both terminals - this will protect from further oxidisation.

If the battery is acid, make sure that there's enough electrolyte in all cells & inspect the plates to ensure they have not corroded/separated - if it's a Gel there should be a Red/Green indicator to let you know the battery state....if after charge the indicator remains red, it's usually a sign to replace.

Glass-Gel batteries are a completely different kettle of fish, these batteries can only be trickle charged (0.5 amp over a greater period of time), preferably by an optimiser - once these batteries go flat they rarely ever fully recover, if at all.

In all cases you seriously need to avoid spills, even the vapour will destroy a good pair of jeans.

Try not to have nightmares.

[NiftyNev]

Buy new battery clamps. Check fluid level in battery and recharge. Fit new clamps and battery and check/clean all other onnections. Try to start with multimeter connected to battery. If voltage dops below 10V while attempting to start, get a new battery.

Nev.