I love my surf

[hamondo]

OK, if anyone has suggestions great :-( as I really am trying hard to keep this one alive!!

2nd Gen surf= 3.0 Turbo Diesel SSRx-Limited auto KZN130 on an L reg 1994 138K on the clock.

Original Problem: engine gets hot very quick and overheating on hills and under load with lack of acceleration, very lumpy on start up, but revs ok, plus the loads of black smoke.

So far this is what 2 garages have tested or replaced between them.

Coolant System was pressurising so changed the following.

New Thermostat Toyota original plus coolant flush.
Cleared out expansion tank full of gel.
New Radiator (Steel kind) plus coolant change
New Radiator cap
New Head gasket (5 hole kind thicker) + New AMC Head with new shims / cam
New water pump
New timing belt and pretension
Viscous fan checked and tested all ok
Glow plugs checked and tested all ok
Full oil and filter change + airfilter
Gearbox ATF needed changing so was done along with the torque converter drain.

Engine still getting hot very quick and overheating under load / hills and struggling to manage its own weight and very lumpy on start up, plus loads of black smoke.
so tested the following:

Injectors all checked and tested ok
Injector pump checked and tested down by 5 degrees so needed a new aluminium housing which has been changed.
Injector pump now working correctly and advancing how it should.
EGR valve blanked off.


Engine still getting hot very quick and overheating under load / hills and struggling to manage its own weight and very lumpy on start up.

so tested the following:

Compression test on each cylinder:

Cylinder 1 = 585
Cylinder 2 = 485
Cylinder 3 = 495
Cylinder 4 = 240!!

Cylinder 4 is the latest issue. Garages think it could be a bent conrod or a porous block? I think the block could be cracked, but if that was the case surly the gases should be going somewhere and coolant system appears ok? Garages have checked all the valves which are ok and are now going to check piston protrusion.

Anyone out there had this level of issues and get to the bottom of the issue?

Anyone every had a cracked block or a cylinder with compression down?

I think I could be looking at a whole new bottom half of the engine at this rate, as all the top half has been replaced

I will see this through as I love my surf but all helpful comments greatly received and any ideas as to what is better? to just replace the whole bottom of the engine or just the block and conrod if that's what it is.

Hope this helps fellow surf owners who may have wondered what that overheating issue was? so far for me its a combination of neglect and hospital passes.

cheers Matt
This is my 3rd surf :-)

[andyverran]

I would wonder why the garage didn't do the compression check a little sooner...

[BUSHWHACKER]

I thingk the garages are playing the; 'If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit' game.

Are they a diesel injection specialist? They would need to be to be able to test the fuel pump properly..

Has anyone carried out a diagnostics test yet?

Is the boost pressure sensor connected correctly?

Are all the other vacuum lines correctly fitted?


I have a good 1KZ-TE engine here for £650 if you need one.

[hamondo]

Thanks

Thanks Guys

1st Garage looked at the coolant system pressurising, and thought the head gasket had gone.

Once they found that it was still not right they looked harder and suggested the injector pump may be at fault but that they didn't know.

So they recommended a diesel specialist in Swansea (shorts) who found the problem with the pump straight away and based on all the work the other garage had done thought that it would then be ok after the pump was sorted. As soon as it went back on and it still wasn't right they did a compression test and found the faulty cylinder. They then asked the question why the 1st garage had not done the compression test sooner! The 1st garage are now having my surf back to take the new head back off and see if the pistons are right and if a conrod is bent or if the block is cracked / porous.

The 1st garage are also offering a concession on the labour for the work that was done on the head.

I suppose there are not many garages out there that take jobs and offer money off just wish they got it right the 1st time. If I do need that engine what's the best way to get hold of you?

Kind regards Matt

[arh]

Sorry for hijacking your thread, but I have just joined this forum and am struggling to find my way around. Could s/one tell me how to start a new thread and also how to look at the photo's on earlier threads. I have a little square with a cross on it but nothing happens when I click on it, also where can I find "your posts". thank you all and sorry again for the hijack, I hope you get your truck sorted soon. arh.

[hamondo]

Update "i love my surf"

Small update on progress with the overheating / compression issue in cyclinder 4.

1st garage have now striped engine back down with the new AMC head off.

They have tested for piston pertrusion and all pistons are ok. So no bent conrods or issues in that area! at least we are getting somewhere with the process of elimination.

Tomorrow they are now going to pull the rest of the block / engine out and strip to see if there is anything obvious as I would be comitted to taking that part of the engine out now as will replace that part if they dont find anything.

hope this info is useful to you all.

Matt

[Overland Tonka]

Useful to me for sure...

I will be watching your progress with interest.

[hamondo]

Update

Good news,

The garage have found the reason why Cylinder 4 compression was so low.

After all the previous work they checked the valves on the new head and found them all ok. They then turned to the piston in Cylinder 4 and removed it and at a glance you won't notice anything wrong see 1st pic but then when you remove the piston rings 2 small pieces come off pic 2.

by some miracle no scoring was made on the cylinder itself as the piston rings kept the 2 bits in place.

May sound like overkill but i'm going to replace all 4 pistons instead of just 1 as peace of mind but also as I have so many other new parts that have warranty I thought it makes sense and I don't want to have to take the head off again if the 3 older ones had an issue, be just my luck, so again trying to future proof.

Parts all coming on Monday / Tuesday so with luck it all goes back together ok and nothing else presents itself I might have my Surf on the road by the end of next week! :-)


In summary there were multiple issues that lead to this piston crack.

The main cause of the piston crack was the lack of fuel from the injector pump as it would not advance.

The head gasket blew because of the heat in that cylinder with un-burnt fuel getting hot and the gaskets are not great plus the cooling system wasn't working correctly.

The radiator and expansion tank were clogged with gel / claye silt stuff and couldn't cool correctly.
Plus the blown gasket caused pressure in the cooling system creating the new radiator to leak too

The reason all this was 19 years of maintenance neglect in a nutshell.

Just to add a few useful other bits of info:

My original head was not cracked as I had it pressure tested and came back passed ok, just wanted to future proof with the AMC one.

Shorts of Swansea advised with the new injector pump that no additives were required in the fuel at all to keep injectors / pump clean as these additives take away the lubrication from the normal fuel with keep the pump lubricated.

Other garage advised that with the injectors on the surf that to keep them clean it needs to be driven hard and don't use fuel cleaner on them. For newer cars like a vw golf or skoda then fuel clean is required for the injectors.

interesting and how true I don't know.

Will let you all know if it all works next week and the overheating issue goes?

Matt

[andyverran]

That's very interesting...totally by coincidence, same problem with my pistons, number 3 looks just like yours.

[Overland Tonka]

Great write up and info...thanks for taking the time..

Are you willing to spill the beans on costs??

[hamondo]

Further update!! Not good.........

OK Since my last post I was recently told by Garage 1 that one piston was cracked.

I ordered 4 new ones, when Garage 1 went to change them they then found that 3 of the 4 Pistons were cracked!! Good job I ordered 4 :-).
Anyway they changed them put engine back together and run it up.
Engine sounded very good on running it up. I took my truck for a test run and found that there was no overheating but that it still was not quit there on the sharp power that I have had in my last 2 surfs.
Thought I would then take my truck to pull the horse trailer empty which is partly why I have my surf as a test to see if all the new parts that had been put in had done the job, well went up a very small hill with the empty trailer and just as I was getting to the top the temperature gauge started moving off the halfway point!!
When I spoke to the garage they said that before just putting a new turbo on they wanted to do a boost check.
They are not sure what the boost setting is for my surf ?? so I need to findout.
Couple of things if anyone knows:
What should a 3liter TD 1KZ-TE engine boost too with a the Turbo?
Is the 3 Liter TD 1KZ-TE Turbo a CT128?
Will blanking off the EGR valve with plates cause a lack of performance with the engine / turbo?
All help much appreciated.

Someone was asking about Beans & Costs…… so here it is so far ballpark!.
Truck cost
£1150
New head + 5 hole gasket + gasket + bolts set , waterpump, radiator, radiator cap, Thermostat, timing belt + pretension from roughtrax, plus labour to fit
£2000
Timing recheck, Test glow plugs, Test injectors , Test Injector pump. New injector pump housing + reassemble and refit to truck
£2000
Head back off, Pistons identified as cracked, 4 new pistons + rings + pins, Sump resealed, Timing done again, EGR blanked off, Head back on, Aircon faulty module replaced and regas
£1000
Problem still the same as when I took it 1st in struggles under load on hills and start overheating, fuel economy is still bad.

Any suggestions on what I should do next?? I don’t want to give up just need someone who knows there SURF stuff and likes being paid .
In fairness to both garages they have fixed pump and pistons which were an issue but I think these were masking something else?
Hope this helps you all and you can help me as I think I spent a fair whack on my surf which I don’t mind but still no result 

Cheers Matt

[BUSHWHACKER]

Holy sh*t!

You've spent 5k on your truck and it's still no better???

I could have Lexurf'd it for less!


Did the garage that changed the pistons show you the cracked ones?

Boost check?? The red engine check light will come on if the turbo wasn't boosting. (Approx. 12psi by the way)

Could be a vacuum pipe or two have been re-fitted incorrectly.

[hamondo]

Update

I know it's a lot money but I really like my surf!

I have all 3 cracked pistons and 1 good one, plus the injector fuel pump housing, plus the 2 head gaskets and set of bolts they have been through, plus the aircon faulty module and the cracked off bits of the pistons too so it's all true but still not right. Good job I've had a few surfs before to tell how they drive to know it's not right. I think I have been very unlucky to have had this combo of faults. Just want to get it fixed so I can enjoy it.

So the boost should be 12 psi and no more?

Will blanking off the EGR with plates cause lack of performance ? I thought reading through past posts that it gives more performance. Still I'm with you on the pipes will get them to check them when it goes back in.
If the EGR has a ball bearing in the pipe but has the blanking plates on too will this have any effect on the engine or turbo? Could really do with someone with surf knowledge having a listen/ drive my surf to tell me what they think?

Any takers?

Cheers again for all your help please keep it coming I am going to see this one through!

[BUSHWHACKER]

The ECU won't allow more than 12psi of boost, it'll have a fit and cut the fuel supply.

The boost pressure sensor is bolted to the passenger side of the cylinderhead near the power steering reservoir. Check that the vacuum pipe is connected to it and the other end on that pipe goes to the throttle body.

EGR blanking plates, ball bearing in the pipe or just crimping the pipe in half doesn't affect turbo operation, they just prevent the exhaust gasses re-entering the combustion chambers to be reburnt. (Lowers NOX emmisions)

Have you done a diagnostics check to see what codes are logged in the ECU?

[hamondo]

Update

Thanks for all that, will check that boost pressure pipe.

Have not done code check, is there a thread for how to do it?

I'll have a look, would that pressure sensor in the 3 litre be the same as a 2.4 only reason I ask is going to pick up parts on Sunday and could get this to change and try if they are the same, my thought is that it would be different?

Cheers Matt