3rd gen water in cylinders? Help

[Dobbslc]

The last couple of times I've gone to start the Surf it has turned about half a rev then stopped, give it a few seconds then it will start with a bit of smoke then run fine. I've had problems with it using a bit of coolent for a while so is it sucking coolent into the cylinders while it's parked? Cracked head...

What is the best most certain way to test the engine for a cracked head without taking it apart?
I've tried a pressure test & fluorescent dye with no results ie it holds 15 psi in the system for a good while and I can't find any dye leaks.
If I know for sure the head has gone I'll get it sorted probably with an AMC one.
Thanks chaps.
Rob

[tashtego]

The last couple of times I've gone to start the Surf it has turned about half a rev then stopped, give it a few seconds then it will start with a bit of smoke then run fine. I've had problems with it using a bit of coolent for a while so is it sucking coolent into the cylinders while it's parked? Cracked head...

What is the best most certain way to test the engine for a cracked head without taking it apart?
I've tried a pressure test & fluorescent dye with no results ie it holds 15 psi in the system for a good while and I can't find any dye leaks.
If I know for sure the head has gone I'll get it sorted probably with an AMC one.
Thanks chaps.
Rob

I can't see coolant getting in the cylinders when the car is parked, I think the system needs to be pressurised (engine running) for the liquid to be pushed through the possible cracks. I think in UK you can do what they call a sniff test, which I think detects exaust gases in your coolant, indicating cross contamination. Maybe that would give you a definite answer.
Good luck!

[will.b]

New head required

Sorry to hear of your problems. The head will be cracked through the inlet and exhaust valves, allowing the coolant to seep into the cylinder bore. Do be aware that trying to start the vehicle with water in, the con rods might bend, meaning the engine would have to come out, instead of just taking the head off and exchanging it for the new one.

[Karma Supra]

I'm removing a perfectly good 3.0 next week if its knackered!

[Dobbslc]

Thanks for the replies. I think that when the engine is cooling it contracts causing a vacuum that pulls coolant in or maybe the pressure in the system is pushing it into the cylinders once the engine stops.
I don't want to take the head off if it's ok but I'm running out of things to test now.
ALL I WANT IS A BUST RADIATOR! that would be easy.

[wishbone]

Check that all your battery terminals are clean and tight - I've had a similar thing happen when the positive on one battery was loose and it almost stopped turning then started. Think it was just normal compression making it hard for the one battery to turn over.

[Dobbslc]

Wishbone you were close,
Looks like it was just slightly flat batteries.
It's only been started twice in two weeks for short journeys, I gave it a good blast up the A1 and it's been fine so far today

[shokenore]

Wishbone you were close,
Looks like it was just slightly flat batteries.
It's only been started twice in two weeks for short journeys, I gave it a good blast up the A1 and it's been fine so far today

Don't want to burst your bubble but discharged batteries will not cause any form of coolant loss.
You would be wise to follow the suggestion of a combustion gas test for your coolant.

[Dobbslc]

I know that! Bubble still intact.
The coolant loss has been going on since last summer it's a small amount I've not been able to track down. I just though it had suddenly got worse and was getting into to cylinders and finally giving me a definitive place to look at.
I need to test the heater matrix tested then get a sniff test sorted out as I'm getting ####ed off thinking about it now.
Just waiting for some sunshine so I can get out there and rip into it.

[shokenore]

If you still want a last gasp before the sniff test, have you checked the rad cap seal?
Plus if you have a very small amount of loss it could well be evaporation from the overflow tank check the lid on that also.

[Dobbslc]

Already got a new Toyota rad cap and the bottle cap looks ok.

[Dobbslc]

Ok update time.
I bought a Bergen co2 cooling system test kit off ebay and tried it yesterday.
It tests co2 in the cooling system using a colour changing fluid.
I tried it out and the fluid went from blue to green straight away.
It seems the head has definitely gone

So I've been looking at the AMC head kits from Roughtrax and although quite a bit more expensive than the stuff on eBay I think they look the best bet for a permanent fix.
What are the opinions of you Surf heads out there?

Are there any points specific to the Surf to look out for when doing the job other than the usual things?
Ta.
Rob

[Ben_D]

Ok update time.
I bought a Bergen co2 cooling system test kit off ebay and tried it yesterday.
It tests got co2 in the cooling system using a colour changing fluid.
I tried it out and the fluid went from blue to green straight away.
It seems the head has definitely gone

So I've been looking at the AMC head kits from Roughtrax and although quite a bit more expensive than the stuff on eBay I think they look the best bet for a permanent fix.
What are the opinions of you Surf heads out there?

Are there any points specific to the Surf to look out for when doing the job other than the usual things?
Ha.
Rob

Hi Rob,

I changed my cracked head last weekend for a built AMC. Despite it being quite a big job it was not that difficult just time consuming.

After several conversations with TonyN (thanks again Tony) I removed the old head with the manifolds attached. Tony recommended doing this with an engine crane but managed with two of us. When I put the new head on, I built up the exhaust side on the bench before installation and put the inlet side back when on the truck to make sure that I got the head down square & straight onto the new gasket.

Cleaning out the rocker cover and inlet manifold took a while, it was full of black gunk.

I think the order I did things in is
Removed batteries
Drain coolant & un fastened all coolant hoses from head and moved any that were in the way.
Drain oil
Remove:
air intake and pipe
turbo pipe (tied VSV's up and left on car)
split exhaust manifold from turbo after removing heat shields (sheared a couple of bolts there)
injector pipes from top of injector & back of pump
timing belt cover
Air con pump & belt
rocker cover
Set timing by turning crank then removed cam belt and cam plate cover bolts from block
unbolted anything still attached to the head (PS reservoir, diagnostic plug Turbo sensor)
Took head off with manifolds, EGR & cam plate (right name?) attached and dismantled on the bench

You'll need some instant gasket stuff for the cam plate and for the bit at the back of the head and plenty of solvent (I used brake cleaner) to get gunk cleaned out of the manifolds

Took ages getting all gasket removed from block, I used a gasket scraper then my nail for the small bits. AMC head comes with a set of injector seats that need to go in before reassembly, Inlet side was a pig to build up when back on the car as there is not a lot space to work, I'd get a hoist to lift it back in built up if I ever change another. Worth changing fan belts & cam tensioner & idler whilst you have it in bits and make sure you have a couple of nuts lying around for removing studs from old head. Make sure that you remove the injectors rather than split them as I did with one!

Took me about 16 hours from start to finish, that includes cleaning everything & filling everything back up.

Good luck with it!

Cheers

Ben

[s car go]

Some of the guys here have used the Milners head,which is of chinese origin,like most of the ebay ones!! We need someone to trial a cheapy chinese cylinder head,you fancy it???

If you want to save a few pounds,buy the bare head.I've bought two bare heads (not that i had a choice),and lap your old valves in.You will probably find that the clearences for the valves are within spec or close enough for a 20 year old tractor.Sometimes you can swop the shims around to get closer tollerances.
If money is really tight,or your just plain mean (like me) you don't have to change the head bolts,if yours are within spec.
A set of torx sockets to remove the exhaust manifold studs,will make things easier.
Good luck

Mark

[Dobbslc]

I did think of going the bare head route so had another look on roughtrax's web site then realized the wording for the bare head says nothing about it being an AMC one.
Does that mean it's a cheaper Chinese one?
I was thinking of going for the full head with all the bits as I need everything except the belt as that's only done 3000 miles.
I suppose I should do the water pump while I'm at it. What else it's worth checking?

The Surf was meant to be a cheap reliable hack but it's turning into a money pit!