Starting Problems

[Surfs:up]

Hi All,

I bought a 1995 KZN130 3.0 lt Diesel Surf back in March and new at the time it wasn't running properly but thought I'd have a go at getting it going again. When I first got it, it started and ran but would cut out after 10 mins or so. I've tinkered a little when I've had the time but now it won't start at all.

Even with freshlly charged batteries it struggles to turn over, I've taen the starter off and everything looks fine there. My next thought was a siezed accessory so I removed aircon and alterator belts and tried again. Still no better so not an accessory problem.

It is clear that the previous owner had been swimming in the truck so I wondered if it was flooded and not being able to compress to I removed the glow plugs and this time she cranked over and I got mist out of the glow plug holes. After placing some paper over one of the holes and then giving it a sniff, it's clear that it doesn't smell like fuel but more like a solvent.

It's importat to not that the latter stages of this was done with clean fuel fed from a can as I suspect that the fuel in the tank is contaminated. Now the batteries have gone flat again so can't do anything more until they're charged again.

Has anyone had similar issues and is it just a matter of turning it over until all the water is gone and cleaning the tank and lines out?

Thanks

Gav

[TonyN]

Assuming its getting deisel to the injectors, I'd compression check it before going to far, maybe previous owner was using nasty Easy Start to get it running, hense the smell.

It only takes the smallest loss of compression from a duff headgasket or worn rings/valve guides and it won't start without a huge struggle, if at all.

[Surfs:up]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your reply. As I understand from the previous owner it the head was replaced by you only a couple of hundred miles ago, which would probably be over a year ago now. I'm sure you did a professional job so doubt it's compression but I could check. Also, loss of compression wouldn't account for it struggling to turn over until I removed the glow plugs. Do I need to remove the injectors to check compression or can I do it through the glow plug orifices? I've already had issues trying to get the fuel injector link pipe off and don't want to damage it.

Cheers

Gav

[TonyN]

Hey, small world,

Where are you? I don't mind having a peek, especially if I've done stuff to it. Something odd must happened to it to spend all that money then not use it and then sell it on.

If the batteries are weak it will still struggle to turn over under compression, but spin happily with the glowplugs out.

I use the glowplug holes with an adapter I made, but do they recommend you use the injector holes as the glowplugs are fragile and don't like being taken in and out.

You should get a fine mist of fuel if you spin it over without the glowplugs in, but it should smell of diesel!

If it got properly dunked in water, it may have bent a valve or even a con rod if it was being revved, or damaged the turbo. Have you taker the air filter out in case its plugged with mud

[Surfs:up]

Hi Tony,

I'm over in Popley but the truck is at RAF Odiham where I worked until recently. You might remember I came to see you a while back and you gave me a oil filter water sensor.

Gav

[shokenore]

Following on from what Tony has said about the batteries, Have you tried starting it with your freshly charged batteries and with the addition of a jump start to help things along....

I recently had trouble with mine starting and I charged what I thought were two good batteries but found one had a dead cell and even after a overnight charge did not have enough power to turn over the motor.

However when I connected up to jump start it with the aide of another vehicle it span over and started,and a new battery sorted it.

[Surfs:up]

Following on from what Tony has said about the batteries, Have you tried starting it with your freshly charged batteries and with the addition of a jump start to help things along....

I recently had trouble with mine starting and I charged what I thought were two good batteries but found one had a dead cell and even after a overnight charge did not have enough power to turn over the motor.

However when I connected up to jump start it with the aide of another vehicle it span over and started,and a new battery sorted it.

I've tried it with both charged batteries and a jump lead as you say and still no joy. The fact that it used to run for a bit then die make me think it's something other than electrical.

[NiftyNev]

Hi Tony,
You might remember I came to see you a while back and you gave me a oil filter water sensor.

Gav

No water sensor for oil. You mean fuel filter? Remove the sensor, then the tap on bottom and replace the o-ring, part number 23344-54010 and see if that helps. If this o-ring is not good then air is sucked into filter while the vehicle is running and sometimes there is also a leak from there.

Nev

[Surfs:up]

Hi Nev,

Yes you're right, I meant fuel filter. Replacing the fuel filter was the first thing I tried and it came with new seals and there's no signs of any leaks but I will take it off and double check the seal is seated correctly.

Gav

[NiftyNev]

It's the very small seal around the tap that you want to check. This does not come with a filter. You only get top seal and bottom seal for the sensor.

Nev

[Surfs:up]

Ok, I thought I'd give an update. I checked the fuel filter seals and all are fine. I fitted 2 fully charged batteries and turned the key only to be greeted with a small click from the starter relay but nothing else. There's power to the motor when the ignition key is turned but it only turns over with a friendly tap from a large hammer and even then it's sluggish.

Both batteries at the end of the day are still showing 12.9V so I think they're ok but the starter motor needs some TLC.

I did manage to get it turning over enough to get some more mist from the glow plug holes and it smells more like diesel so hopefully that's the old contaminated fuel getting through the lines and letting the clean fuel through.

[Surfs:up]

Starter Woes

Right, I took the starter off again to check out the contacts and although they were slightly pitted (1st picture) they didn't look too bad.

I gave them a bit of a rub down with scotchbrite (2nd Picture) and refitted everything to try again. The engine is all back together and it turned over a bit better but still sluggish akin to flat batteries but both are still showing 12.6V after 2 days of trying to start the engine.

I've now ordered this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2907338937...#ht_992wt_1270

Once it arrives I'll fit it and try again. Getting good at starter motors now!

[TonyN]

Those contacts don't look too bad, I wouldn't have expected it to cause to many issues, normally the pitted one is eroded to only a mm or so thick before you start to get starter issues, but would hurt to change them though.

It's very rare that the starter itself burns out, but not unknown.

More likely the battery terminals have stretched and not clamping tight if a rebuilt starter is still reluctant to spin fast.

I could lent you good starter to try, still keen to look at it but on holiday next week, so not much time left, give me a call if you want.

[Surfs:up]

Starter Loan

Those contacts don't look too bad, I wouldn't have expected it to cause to many issues, normally the pitted one is eroded to only a mm or so thick before you start to get starter issues, but would hurt to change them though.

It's very rare that the starter itself burns out, but not unknown.

More likely the battery terminals have stretched and not clamping tight if a rebuilt starter is still reluctant to spin fast.

I could lent you good starter to try, still keen to look at it but on holiday next week, so not much time left, give me a call if you want.

Hi Tony,

I'd like to take you up on the offer of a starter loan for comparison if possible and could come to you asap as I'm off work at the moment. I was going to send you a PM but don't know how to and I don't have your number!

Can you email me your number to gavin.flinders@googlemail.com and I'll give you a ring tomorrow (Thursday) if that's ok.

Cheers

Gav

[Surfs:up]

Starter Loan

Thanks Tony for the loan of another starter motor. The first thing I noticed as soon as I picked it up was how much bigger it is. Mine looks the same but is a miniature version and the terminal nuts are only 13mm compared to 17mm on the loan one.