Error 14

[johnsiddle]

Hi guy's
I thought I had fixed this fault but no luck.

Starts from cold OK ( I usually start on Dino switched over the night before) runs at any speed, any engine revs, for up to about 5 miles then if I let the revs rise to about 2.5k the engine check light comes on and power is very limited, revs is limited to about 2.5k

From here on if I keep the revs at about 2200, no problem, I can drive all day I can even get up to 65 like this. (Its the low gear hills that are a problem)

As soon as the revs go to about 2500 engine check light on I then have to throttle down way below 2k for about 6 secs and the light goes out, full power is then restored until I hit 2.5k again... and so on.

One of the error14 faults is blocked filter but I have changed them also removed the top of the injector pump and blasted everything with the air gun (including removing the filter behind the fuel temp sensor).

Once the car gets into this error condition it remains so until everything has cooled down for several hours.
It faults on both BIO and DINO they both have their own filters (the bio has a total of three) only the changeover valve is common to both.

There are other causes of error14 but I dont totally understand them or where to check.

any idea's????

[tonupteabag]

Have a look for the boost pressure sensor and make sure the vacuum pipe hasn't become detached or has a hole in it. HTH
Just had a re-read of your post, it sounds more like a blocked pick up pipe filter in the fuel tank, just blow back through the feed pipe from the tank and, if it's ok and back to how it should be, the tank needs removing and cleaning out.

[johnsiddle]

Have a look for the boost pressure sensor and make sure the vacuum pipe hasn't become detached or has a hole in it. HTH
Just had a re-read of your post, it sounds more like a blocked pick up pipe filter in the fuel tank, just blow back through the feed pipe from the tank and, if it's ok and back to how it should be, the tank needs removing and cleaning out.

Thanks for the reply, I would agree that the pipe might be blocked were it not for the fact that I get the same problem when switched to Dino or Bio. I have a twin tank system and only the change over valve and a short bit of pipe is common.
I have just given the C/O valve a good clean out but to no avail.

Also how can you explain the fact that it will run AOK for up to 5miles from cold.

I have developed a very light right foot now, my fuel economy is amazing..

I will check the boost pressure sensor, thats the one on the side of the head just behind the top hose to the rad... yes???

[mr.rosco]

Thanks for the reply, I would agree that the pipe might be blocked were it not for the fact that I get the same problem when switched to Dino or Bio. I have a twin tank system and only the change over valve and a short bit of pipe is common.
I have just given the C/O valve a good clean out but to no avail.

Also how can you explain the fact that it will run AOK for up to 5miles from cold.

I have developed a very light right foot now, my fuel economy is amazing..

I will check the boost pressure sensor, thats the one on the side of the head just behind the top hose to the rad... yes???

Have you always run a twin tank system and was the second tank new? I used to have the same problem but I would only get 2 miles. Normally there is a course filter over the pick up pipe in the tank an the return pipe is on the outside to wash it when fuel is returned. The distance you will get is probably the amount of fuel you can use before the vacuum build up in the lines is to great. In my tank it was the crap in the bottom of the tank blocking the course filter. It is also possible to get a kind of crystal build up in the tanks and lines when diesel and Veg come in to contact, something to do with microbiology and the crystals being the micro-organisms excriment, however I have not researched this fully. I had a simalar thing with the 2500 revs, I believe that the faster you rev the more fuel you are trying to pull, therefore more crap gets stuck to the course filter and less fuel is getting sent back to wash it off. The veg tank could just be coinsidence or if a second hand tank it could have the same problem. When I say ccoinsidence I mean veg is thicker so if you don't have a heat exchanger in the tank it will struggle to pull the thicker liquid at the same rate as diesel, do you also have a breather valve in the second tank?.

[TonyN]

If you have checked the filters and still getting the code you need to look at the other faults.

Timer control valve is on the bottom of the pump, and can fail or play up, and also fuel pressure could be a blocked pump somewhere, quite often the only way to fix a code 14 fault is to get another good used or recon pump.

We have had people have other systems causing a timer control fault, like an iffy throttle position sensor confusing the timing even though the TPS tests as ok as far the ECU was concerned, but i don't think its very common.

[mr.rosco]

I would suggest having a look at the fuel primer pump on the filter if it is a vacuum when the engine cuts out it will be fully down. If you then disconect the main fuel line in to the filter and there is a woosh of air and the pump releases then it is probably the tank side. I did also have a similar problem before I used veg on the injector side. It turned out to be the spill control valve. The cables to it were damaged and only a few strands were still connected, when you increase the temperature of a cable you also increase its resistance. In short when my engine got hot my spill control valve cut in.

[johnsiddle]

Hi Mr Rosco.
I have run this second tank for about three years now, although the tank was second hand it was well cleaned when I cut a big hole in it and put a ladder of copper pipe in so that I could heat it with hot water.
I removed the filter from the pickup pipe ( it is now and open 8mm pipe) and fitted an SU type glass bowl water trap/filter just outside the tank, this catches odd bits of glycerol and other crap that drops out of the BIO.

The engine does not cut out, just is limited by revs and power, by the time I got out of the car the primer pump would have returned to normal, it only takes about 5 seconds to kill the fault and power is returned.

I could understand this if the car had this fault when cold (thicker oil) but it runs at full power when cold at any revs and only fails when hot, I can even start the car cold on BIO at the current weather temperature.. Also I get the same fault when running on Dino from my first tank. The changeover valve is the only common factor and I gave that a good clean/flush out last weekend.

A couple of weeks ago I had the top off the injector pump and blasted white spirit thro with an airline including the fuel pipe into the fuel pump, also cleaned the filter behind the fuel temp sensor and blasted the fuel ways leading to it etc.
The breather pipes from both tanks are branched together. I think I shall do a run tomorrow with the filler cap off just in case the breathers are blocked.

From what you are saying guy's it looks like I shall have to take the injector pump out and strip it down, I have had a good run, not had to do it for about 9 months

[johnsiddle]

Well I have been running with the fuel cap loose and although it seemed to improve things at the start, today it seemed to have made things worse.


Noticed now that the weather has cooled it is marginally better Wierd or what??

[mr.rosco]

Hi Mr Rosco.
The changeover valve is the only common factor and I gave that a good clean/flush out last weekend.

Hi, I have been away for a few weeks. How are you getting on? Are you using the metal fuel lines going to the fuel filter. If so the heat might be acting as a catalyst and causing a problem in them. Unlikley but it is possible to get a reaction off metals like Vegetable Oil Polymerization for example. If so put a clear penny filter after the lines and before the main filter and look for any greenish deposits. Also you do have the correct fuel return pipe going to the correct tank?

[johnsiddle]

Hi, I have been away for a few weeks. How are you getting on? Are you using the metal fuel lines going to the fuel filter. If so the heat might be acting as a catalyst and causing a problem in them. Unlikley but it is possible to get a reaction off metals like Vegetable Oil Polymerization for example. If so put a clear penny filter after the lines and before the main filter and look for any greenish deposits. Also you do have the correct fuel return pipe going to the correct tank?

Hi Mate.
Thanks for your interest..
The only metal lines involved are the ones actually on the injector pump and inside the heat exchanger which is stainless steel.
All my other ones are plasticy rubbery.

I thought I had cracked it when I found a short length of return hose which was that reinforced plastic type (it was only about a foot long and only tempory) it had separated inside and had gone hard and flat, but changing it for a normal piece made just a little difference, I think.

I was reading the manual I have downloaded and according to the diagnostics flow chart the problem is in the Timing Control Valve on the pump.
The symptoms were just like mine, 'Lack of power after or during warm up' so I guess it is going to be a pump out and strip down. Which is what TonyN suggested a while ago...

It will have to wait a couple of weeks before I will have time to do it.

Will let you know what happens..
John

[BeratE]

When you strip down the pump, any chance you might take pictures of the process?

[johnsiddle]

OK Mate.
No Problems..
John

[johnsiddle]

Finally took my Injector pump off, I had a spare pump that I have rejected about two years ago so I stripped that down and got it ready to drop straight in apart from the TC valve and spill valve ( which are both knackered).

The car is running differently the pump is unable to pull BIO thro the three filters I have but is ok on just one. It is strange but I now get the engine check light on at tickover but rev and it goes out. I have full power all the time tho so who cares.

The inside of the pump, all three filters and the plate heat exchanger were choked up with Glycerol so I went back to my home made coax type heater but with the oil pipe changed for an aluminium one.
The error code is still 14 so I guess it is still a timing issue. The pump is the original so I guess its a bit worn and the advance retard ring was a bit stiff.
But hay the car is working OK. Found a busted outside CV boot split and a big spilt along the rear tail piece of the exhaust so have now sorted these in time for the MOT later this month.
I will strip the pump I took out down and get it ready to go back in..... sometime..

I have taken lots of pictures of the stripped down injector pump, I will post them as a new thread as soon as I get some time.
#John

[johnsiddle]

Just found out why the pump would not pull the BIO thro three filters, the pipe between the pump and the changeover valve ( normally the filter) was loose and it was sucking in air.
It developed a reluctance to start even Dino which gave me a clue.
Still got the error 14 on tickover but who cares, full power has resumed on both BIO and DINO.....