Clutch has gone - 1995 Surf 1KTZE

[Gonzo]

Hey fella's,

Couple weeks back I did a straight g/box swap on my Surf due to a crook first gear. Had spent about 6 months on 2nd gear starts, and while I was aware of how excellent that was going to be for my clutch, I was a student etc and couldnt afford the repairs.

Anyway, finally made the swap to a 2nd hand box which has been awesome thus far. But today, after a few skips and some funny rattly noises the clutch totalyl shi*ts itself, I'm getting traction only in first gear and only at about 20Kph. Any higher, and any kind of incline and it starts crunching away and doesn't go anywhere. Revs do tho.

So, I'm guessing [from conversations with mechanics and research on the net] that it's the pressure plate...I'm not entirely sure, but I've got a price on whats being called a one-piece clutch kit which includes a flywheel [not sure of mass] from a previsouly working model. [flywheel / thrust bearing / pressure & clutch plate ] which is at a great price [400 compared to close to a grand for new]

So couple things I need to know before I tear it all apart again:
- What's the diference between a one and a two piece clutch kit? Are they interchangeable?
- Is there any special tool[s] required to re-fit a clutch?
- Is there any special distances or hi-precision placements I need to know about between plates etc?
- Any torque settings anywhere? Technique to doing bolts up?
- Any balancing required?
- Crazy to use 2nd hand parts? If so, can I get away with a quick machine of the flywheel and only replace what's $$$$ped out? I.e pressure plate etc?
- Any bearings / seals I should do while Im in there?

Any help or advice at all would be wikkid, I am hoping to document and photograph the ordeal so as to share my findings and experiences with those sharing my predicament so will try to give something back to the forum once this is all over...

Cheers,

G

[TonyN]

Its pretty much certain its the dual mass flywheel thats phucked.

A new dual mass flywheel is horribly expensive, we always fit a new 4Runner one peice flywheel, along with a new clutch, still nearly half price.

The clutch plates are slightly different, the dual mass one has no shock springs in the clutch plate, as the dual mass flywheel does this instead of the clutch plate like normal.

The dual mass flywheels are generally a pain when they fall apart, and they do especially if its had lots of abuse like towing or offroading (or pulling away in 2nd ) I'd avoid fitting a used one if at all poss and fit a conventional style clutch and flywheel.

[Gonzo]

Cheers Tony,

I hear what you're saying...I've never really understood the deal with dual-mass flywheels, as far as I can tell they're complete sh*ite and, like you say, a boatload dearer? Figure that one out....

So that's cool - at least I'm not going to wade thru my ignorance now and paste in a dual-mass FW and end up in the same predicament too soon, appreciate that. Will keep hunting for a conventional kit then.

Have you done many installs yourself? Is there special balancing tools or techniques required? Can think of nothing worse than getting it all back together again and shuddering & juddering all the way home cause I hucked it up....!

Cheers!

G

[plumb bob]

Here's some info and prices, they probably would ship to NZ but you'll have to speak to then re; cost.

It may be worth trying your local Toyota dealer, as they can get any parts for any model from anywhere in the world, and you're nearer to Japan than we are.


http://www.toyotahilux.com/?doc=11&cid=158

[Gonzo]

Thanks PlumbBob, took a looky thru their price list, seems to be fairly consistent with the majority of prices I'm getting from people over here, though I've gone from $695NZD up to $2300NZD for the same thing, so if anything I've learned it's making sure you shop the hell around....

I'm figuring this thing out slowly as I do my research - the dual-mass flywheels *are* beneficial to some degree by lowering the vibration and softening the take-up of the clutch as I'm sure most people here know, but at a cost more than that of a complete kit [inc solid-mass FW] it's more beneficial to my bank account to go with the solid mass.

Toyota however discouraged the use of the solid mass FW, saying too much vibration = gearbox chatter and could lead to problems later, but to be honest, this will be the last big sum of $ I spend on the truck - having done over 400'000 km, I paid $3k for it, and it's quickly getting to the point where it's just not going to be worth it any more.

Anyway, my rant for day of Wednesday, appreciate the headsup fella's.

g

[TonyN]

Toyota however discouraged the use of the solid mass FW, saying too much vibration = gearbox chatter and could lead to problems later, but to be honest, this will be the last big sum of $ I spend on the truck - having done over 400'000 km, I paid $3k for it, and it's quickly getting to the point where it's just not going to be worth it any more.

Anyway, my rant for day of Wednesday, appreciate the headsup fella's.

g

Don't worry about it. Only Surfs had a dual mass flywheel, all 4Runners aroudn the world have a solid one. If Toyota where SO impressed with their dual mass flywheel, why did they go back to a solid one on the manual box 3rd Gen Surfs??

[Gonzo]

Yeah well, that's point enough for me - end of the day I am guessing it's more beneficial to his bank account for me to replace the whole lot with the dual mass FW....appreciate the advice there, I've managed to track down a solid mass FW & clutch kit with all required accessories [bolts etc] for $800NZD...which is the best price yet. I was looking to be paying that for just the FW in some outfits, one was even $2300NZD for the whole kit - so any Kiwis out there, dont bother with BNT auto parts, esp. if you're just a regular joe...

Will keep this thread updated with progress for anyone who cares or has the same trouble as me, hoping to do the repairs early next week.

Thanks.

[andy470]

Kiwi Friend

Sterling Brake And Clutch In Onehunga Auckland 1800 All Fitted..
I Must Say All Toyota Want Is Your Money...the "noise" They Talk About Is Hardley Auidible Its A Diesel Right! Radio On Who Cares...
I Didnt Notice It... Car Came Back Better Than Ever...bit Firmer Clutch Feel But Drives Like A Dream..also Inspires A Lot More Confidence Knowing That The Flywheel Is 1 Solid Chunk Of Steel As Aposed To Many...its A "truck" After All And Where I Go The Last Thing I Want To Worry About Is Some Spring Snapping On The Flywheel...keep In Mind Singlemass Flys Been Used 4 Years And On Cars With 550hp So Toyota Saying Ooooooo Might B Dicey Mate Is Just 2 Hard 4 Me To Swallow.. Cheers And Good Luck.... Old School Bro...nothing Fancy Just Good Strong Reliable Old School...

[Gonzo]

Andy mate, speak-a my language there like a pro.

Latest update here is that I found a toyota outfit in Tauranga who were selling the [genuine] solid mass / clutch kit for $800 straight. The best price and brand new of all the people I talked to. Packing slip quoted $860 for the flywheel, $640 for the clutch kit...musta wanted to get rid of them perhaps.

I am my [pretty dodgy] mechanic - considering quotes from several real-life mechanics ran into the 2k mark, I found a mate with a vehicle hoist and so did the whole lot myself. Took a day or so, and plenty of big fat swear words - if you're careful and use decent tools it's piece-a-cake.

One point to note - I pulled the crank-seal figuring I'd replace it while I was in there, onyl to find out Toyota charge $140+g.s.t for it. I'ma tight-arse so I figured I'd re-use the old one [ no-one told me a seal is a one use only item ] and ended up with engine oil $$$$ing out the bell-housing. So onyl option was to tear it all back out and replace it. Moral = If it aint broke leave it the $$$$ alone!

Interestingly enough, since the conversion I've not noticed any more 'chatter' than normal, yeh - exactly, it's a diesel man...and it goes a-for choice now. When i pulled the old one [ flywheel - which *was* totally monstered] I couldn't figure it out - how's it going to be better than just a good old solid piece of steel??? Too much flashy gizmo $$$$ going on only adds to the list of potential problems.

Clutch takeup was a bit jumpy at the end of travel to begin with but funnily enough it's smoothed out now...even my missus can drive it pretty good!!

I took a few snaps during the process so will share the experience once I get round to compiling it all.

All in all, the conversion from dual -> solid was the best thing I could've done - as you said Andy, it's a real peace of mind thing when you're fifty km down a deserted beach some place knowing the flywheel is the last thing that can possibly break. Old school is my new school...

Merry Christmas!

G

[andy470]

Smoothing Out

Merry christmas to you,had solid fly and clutch combo in for bout 4 weeks now and love it.Similar experience, its starting to bed in nicely as the pressure plate and flywheels new surface run in, feels awsome to me.Also had to laugh at the comment "the missus can drive it now" exactly the same thing happend to me.After it was done i said i reckon even you can drive this now and she could, a lot easier than before,BUT HANG ON that cant be good ill loose my truck ok out!!!!!!lol Ive recently put new monroe 4x4 shocks on the unit replacing the hard and soft electronic type with standard purpose built shocks that has also transformed the surf.All bushes are good,links and D bushes on sway bars etc all ok.yet still have clicking type noise coming from the right front research on this site has tought me that its cv related inner and outer bushes are worn, they are channeled brass bout 2.5mm thick and common to fail so heads up bro....peice of cake to do yourself apparently cures this knock and truck runs smooth and quiet again...cheers gonzo off to muriwhai beach tommorow to give the surf some more SH?!....