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**Guest** · 1 October 2004, 09:17

Originally posted by carbonman

Hi all, long time no post!
Unfortunatly my first post for a while is one requesting help....

Just as a background, I have been running the truck on a 60-40 mix of veg oil / diesel. Its been running like a dream. I am however currently on a tank of 100% diesel due to no supermarkets near where I needed to fill up. So...

Went to start the truck this morning and as the starter kicked in, the engine didn't get to turn over, but the starter motor just made a heavy clunk noise. I kept trying to start it and after about 5 nasty heavy clunks it turned and started. Whilst driving up the road I noticed that it was bellowing white smoke out the back, like its never done before, so much so that I couldn't see out the rear window, however, this slowely died after maybe 1/4 mile and dissapeared.

I carried on my journey to work and about 7 miles in I had to stop to drop someone off, when I did I noticed that a)my rear windows switch had stopped working (most likely a coincidence but thought I would mention) b) I could hear my header tank bubbling :-( The temperature gauge hadn't moved a inch and I know it works as often going up long steep hills with a load it will slowely move up a bit. I started it back up and carried on to work, by the time I got about 1/4 mile to work the temp gauge started to move up proper fast, so much so that it hit the red 2 traffic light stops before work, so I stopped let it cool for 5 minutes and limped to work by which time it had hit the red again. :-(

Its probably been about 6-7000 miles since ive done a oil change and its planned in for this weekend, and same for fuel filter, just so you know.

Any one got any ideas / things I should check / do... HELP!!
Its currently just cooling down outside work.
I don't wanna cause any more damage, and if nessesary I could get a tow home or RAC

Ive had the truck since last december and never had any problems with it to date, its been a model example of one.

Thanks in advance guys.

When it has really cooled down, go outside, take the radiator cap off and start the engine. If the water starts to bubble over almost immediately then the head or Gasket (Most likely the head) is toast.

I think the starting difficulty is a coincidence and is probably the starter contacts (in the solenoid that throws in the cog on the starter).

Rear window heater switch is probably a fuse or even one of the bulbs in the switch (it has two).

They say things come in threes so that may be your 3.

Cheers and good luck, I hope it is just something like the thermostat, rad cap or viscous fan. I would actually suggest that a good bet is the rad cap as you could here the bubbling before it got hot - suggests to me that the rad cap is letting the pressure out of the system - which will cause it to boil because it is only because the cooling system runs under pressure that it has a higher boiling point than water under no pressure.

**carbonman** · 1 October 2004, 09:36

Thanks for that andy
I'll go and check it in a bit...

Some one suggested to me that the clunking could have been if the head gasket was leaking water into the cylinder, when I try to start it its got to push that out, which would account for the bellowing white smoke on startup and presumably why its now overheating cos the gasket it gone.........

I know mines a 2.4 - but if the head gasket has gone, can it just be a "simple" head gasket job?? head off skim, back on torque up job?

Cheers

**NiftyNev** · 1 October 2004, 11:27

Sorry to say that it may have been the gasket to start with but if temperature gauge hit the red then the head will almost certainly be cracked.Hope it's not but be prepared for the worse.Difficulty starting and white smoke may have been coolant in one or more cylinders.If coolant leaking into the bores has been happening for a while then corrosion and pitting will be evident.A pressure test is the first thing to get done.

Good luck
Neville

**carbonman** · 1 October 2004, 11:40

Gonna have a look at lunch time and check what lucky said. It was only in the red for a very short period of time, probably < 5 minutes
But i am preparing myself for bad news......

Is it the case that if the head is cracked i will need a new one, if the head is not cracked I can just skim it and put it back on?

thanks again for all your comments

**Guest** · 1 October 2004, 12:06

Originally posted by carbonman

Gonna have a look at lunch time and check what lucky said. It was only in the red for a very short period of time, probably < 5 minutes
But i am preparing myself for bad news......

Is it the case that if the head is cracked i will need a new one, if the head is not cracked I can just skim it and put it back on?

thanks again for all your comments

If it's the head, don't skimp and get the head skimmed, put a new one on (not a recon one either). It will cost about �200 extra for a new one instead of a recon one and you will at least know it is good then. The new ones are supposed to be redesigned to move the waterways further from the valves to stop the head cracking again.

Getting the head skimmed is false economy as it will go again.

If it is just the head gasket I would still get the head tested for cracks as they may be there but not visible to the naked eye.

If you can afford a new head, it is almost worth replacing the head even if it isn't cracked if you already have the old one taken off. It will mean that you don't have to do that horrible job again.

Cheers and I really hope it isn't the head gone. I still hope you might be lucky and it's just the rad cap.

**Guest** · 1 October 2004, 12:15

Originally posted by carbonman

Gonna have a look at lunch time and check what lucky said. It was only in the red for a very short period of time, probably < 5 minutes
But i am preparing myself for bad news......

Is it the case that if the head is cracked i will need a new one, if the head is not cracked I can just skim it and put it back on?

thanks again for all your comments

**carbonman** · 1 October 2004, 13:07

Well, had a look at it, and its soo hard to tell over a lunch break!

I took the rad cap off and filled it to the brim, started it and ran it around for a bit, temp got up to normal but no further....

However.. the overflow bottle was filling up, and by the time I switched the engine off, it was full and overflowing onto the ground (do i need to manually empty this now?) now I understand this may be due to air getting in the system when it overheated, so if I understand correctly, I need to keep topping it up, and keep running with the heater etc.. on hot to get the water to move all the air out of the system...

Im guess as it didn't over heat immediatly the heads not gone in a massive way.. is it possible that it could be the thermostat?

oh yeah (embarrassed look here) took the window lock off and strangly the rear window started working again! Who'd of thought!! ooops

If it is head / gasket etc.. are they easy enough to get hold of?

Thanks again guys

**Tallyman** · 1 October 2004, 18:17

One thing nobody has mentioned is your service interval. On these diesels you should change the oil every 3K miles, so letting it go to 6-7K is too much. Sensible to change the filter at similar intervals as they're cheap enough from Milners.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

**carbonman** · 1 October 2004, 18:20

Yeah I feel bad about the oil, have some on order from milners along with filter. So making that a priority...

As a update, I filled it with water before i left work and drove the 20 mins dual carriadge way home at a steady 60.. with the heater on full all the way..

Temp guage didn't move from normal a millimeter....

When I got home, there was no boiling noise, no water coming from the overflow..

What should I do now, just keep monitoring it?
Im very confused...could it just be "one of thoses things" and go back to being ok? Could the thickness of the oil caused a problem??

Thanks again for all your advice and help...
Cheers
CM

**TonyN** · 1 October 2004, 18:37

Its a shame you let it get in to the red, thats normally death to a 2.4 head, but it may have been cracked already.

The expansion tank tank filling up means the cooling system is getting pressurized somehow. Usually by combustion pressures leaking past a crack gasket/head into the cooling system.

The hard starting sounds like it had water in one of the pistons (leaking back through the crack after switched off), lucky you got rid of it while cranking, if it started with a piston full of water you may have bent a rod or worse.

Good odds its the head,

happens to so many others, you need to get it pressure tested, but this won't tell if its the gasket or head. I'd whip it off anyway.

Can't see it being directly related to the oil change or fuel.

It won't have got properly hot in 20mins, especially with the heater on, the crack may only open at a certain temp as it expands.

Watch it for a while, check you have no airlocks in the cooling system, but with the water being in the piston, you may do more damage if it fills up again. I reckon it needs exploratry surgery.

**carbonman** · 1 October 2004, 18:42

Thanks for the info....

I didnt have much choice re the red, it went up so quickly while i was coming off the dual carriadge way where I couldn't stop, but I did stop at first possible opportunity :-(

i'll keep my eye on it and keep you all informed as to how its gone.

Thanks for all the replies and helpfull posts.
Cheers
CM

**carbonman** · 1 October 2004, 22:24

Just as an update...
If anyone who has an opinion can let me know what they think that would be great.....

Had it standing running this evening, with the rad cap off, and as it got hotter and bubbled i kept topping it up... I think that it was just hopefully clearing out the air in the system as the temp gauge never moved a jot..

Took it our for a spin and again the temp gauge didn't move a bit.
Took it out a bit later, after it had cooled down a bit and almost straight away I hit a pretty steep hill, so had to give it some welly to get up, by the time I go to the top of the hill the gauge had started to go up pretty quickly, however as soon as I levelled out, it dropped back to normal as quick as it had risen.

Could it be just the thermostat???
I was thinking if it was the head, it would be less likely to drop back to normal very quickly....
Any ideas?

Cheers
CM

**marky** · 1 October 2004, 22:28

You can try it without the thermostat to see if there is any improvement,
Thermostats can fail so its worth a try. 2.4 head gaskets never seem to go 99% of the time its the head

**stara** · 1 October 2004, 22:41

Originally posted by carbonman

Just as an update...
If anyone who has an opinion can let me know what they think that would be great.....

Had it standing running this evening, with the rad cap off, and as it got hotter and bubbled i kept topping it up... I think that it was just hopefully clearing out the air in the system as the temp gauge never moved a jot..

Took it our for a spin and again the temp gauge didn't move a bit.
Took it out a bit later, after it had cooled down a bit and almost straight away I hit a pretty steep hill, so had to give it some welly to get up, by the time I go to the top of the hill the gauge had started to go up pretty quickly, however as soon as I levelled out, it dropped back to normal as quick as it had risen.

Could it be just the thermostat???
I was thinking if it was the head, it would be less likely to drop back to normal very quickly....
Any ideas?

Cheers
CM

overheating on hills is usually cooling fan failure, check your viscous fan operation. i.e. stiff or locked when hot.

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