Yet another starting problem!

[rockdrill]

OK, at the start of the year my Surf became troublesome to start.

When I first bought it I was told about waiting for the beep before starting so I have always followed that advice and normally it fired first attempt with that method.

However it got where it would just crank and throw out copious pale smoke until it fired.

My thought was glow plugs - which proved to be correct as upon replacing them there was only one functional plug. I had no information as to whether they had been replaced before so I can only assume they were the original ones.

Anyway, as soon as the plugs were replaced normal starting resumed and has been fine for most of the year until late September, when I went to South Africa for a couple of weeks.

On my return the starting has become really reluctant. On cold starts (still with the 'wait for the beep' procedure) the truck just cranks, throwing out the pale smoke again until the cylinders are hot enough for it to fire, running slightly rough then quickly smoothing out.

Once the engine is warm it starts first time no messing, it is just the cold starts first thing in the morning and leaving work late in the day if I haven't had cause to run the vehicle during the day.

Now I doubt that four brand new glow plugs have all failed in 8 months. Of course it is a possibility, but not the most likely I would imagine.

The 80 amp fuse, if I understand correctly (and when it come to electricals I am not brilliant) should it have failed the relay will still operate and the dashboard light will show as per normal, but no power will go to the plugs themselves?

Regarding the relay sending power to the plugs, is it possible that a fault could develop where it will still sound as if it is working but not actually be passing power to the plugs?

I believe, from reading old threads, there is a temperature sensor lurking as well?

Finally is there anyone local to me who might have spares I can buy if it turns out to be one of these items or is it a case of going through a dealership?

Many thanks for any assistance or advice you may be able to offer.

Dale

[stormforce]

Hi Dale i am in Camborne and i got a unit in Connor Downs where i work from so if you need anything give me a ring on 07974183876.I also do a fitting service aswell if needed
i have just bought a 3.0l and it won't start.It apparently throws out smoke but just wont fire up.Some of us ythink its more than likely to of slipped a tooth on the fuel pump.I will change the belts and all filter also as they don't look like they've been changed for a few years either

[rockdrill]

Richard many thanks for your offer, I will give you a call later and see if we can get to the bottom of this as I use my truck for commuting and the troublesome starting is damned nuisance.

As to fuel pump OMG - not another possible problem

Would that not cause problems at all starts though not just when totally cold?

[stormforce]

Richard many thanks for your offer, I will give you a call later and see if we can get to the bottom of this as I use my truck for commuting and the troublesome starting is damned nuisance.

As to fuel pump OMG - not another possible problem

Would that not cause problems at all starts though not just when totally cold?

i doubt it would be the fuel pump on yours but the truck i got here it certainly sounds like it.
You could try the glow plug relay on yours.Does it click when the truck is ready to start or no

[rockdrill]

Does it click when the truck is ready to start or no

When I first turn the key I hear a click of a relay closing and the glow plug light illuminates for its normal time period then goes out, several seconds after there is a clunk of the relay disengaging and the beeper goes off, but trying to start it suggests no preheat has occurred.

If I try multiple glows the relay operation becomes erratic or doesn't click at all.

As I mentioned once the engine is warm it will start like a good'un without smoke or fuss. It is just the stone cold starts that are problematic.

[stormforce]

my own truck is like this aswell at the moment which i need to get sorted asap before the weather gets to cold.Its only started being like it over the last couple of weeks now

[darkdezigns]

id check the fuse,also u say multiple goes doesnt help,try waiting for beep,then key off,then beep again,doe the beep twice?any diffrence?if not id say no power to plugs especially if it starts fine once warm

[guysturg1]

surely if the temp sender thats in the block under the inlet manifold that supplies the signal to the ecu is faulty would that cause starting issues, gonna change mine shortly as mine is giving exactly the same symptoms

[rockdrill]

id check the fuse,also u say multiple goes doesnt help,try waiting for beep,then key off,then beep again,doe the beep twice?any diffrence?if not id say no power to plugs especially if it starts fine once warm

I have tried multiple glows following the procedure of waiting for the beep. What I have noticed is the first attempt you hear the relay click on then a short while after the light goes out it clunks off then the beep sounds.

Switching off and retrying, I have noted an almost immediate click and clunk of the relay going on and off, wait for beep, try again the relay operates for maybe 4-5 seconds, beep, try again no relay click, just a beep after a while, try again and short operation of the relay.

After all that trying to start it takes a fair bit of turning over until it warms enough to fire, in the meantime a cloud of pale smoke is forming at the tailpipe!

surely if the temp sender thats in the block under the inlet manifold that supplies the signal to the ecu is faulty would that cause starting issues, gonna change mine shortly as mine is giving exactly the same symptoms

Thank you for the pointer on this one.

Is it an item I would need to get from a Toyota dealer or would Milners or Roughtrax stock them?

[stormforce]

I have tried multiple glows following the procedure of waiting for the beep. What I have noticed is the first attempt you hear the relay click on then a short while after the light goes out it clunks off then the beep sounds.

Switching off and retrying, I have noted an almost immediate click and clunk of the relay going on and off, wait for beep, try again the relay operates for maybe 4-5 seconds, beep, try again no relay click, just a beep after a while, try again and short operation of the relay.

After all that trying to start it takes a fair bit of turning over until it warms enough to fire, in the meantime a cloud of pale smoke is forming at the tailpipe!





Thank you for the pointer on this one.

Is it an item I would need to get from a Toyota dealer or would Milners or Roughtrax stock them?

I should have one of these on one of the 2.4's i got here aswellDale that you can try.

[rockdrill]

Proper job Richard, many thanks.

[rockdrill]

Richard,
Many thanks for your time on Saturday to dig out those bits for me.

Having fitted the relay and re-charged the batteries, the truck started fairly easily on Sunday, but this morning the temperature was down to 6.5 degrees and it was back to being troublesome.

I will see if I can borrow a mutlimeter today and check to see if power is actually going to the plugs. Als see about checking the resistance of each plug.

The 80A fuse is intact, but I wonder whether there is a bad or broken connection somewhere.

I am wondering if I might have got glow plugs from a duff batch that haven't lasted, but I still think that is the least likely issue.

One other thing, I noticed when the batteries were freshly re-charged it started better. Not being an expert on things electrical does anyone know the expected lifespan of a vehicle battery. Both of them in my truck appear to be the originals that came over with it when impoorted as they are covered in stickers full of Japanese writing, which makes them a good 15 years old!

[stormforce]

Hi Dale.It's looking like we have exactly the same problem as mine started ok yesterday aswell but i haven't tried it yet today.I had swapped my batteries with some from a breaker a while back and i'm wondering if its the cause aswell as they seem fairly old.You should be able to get good new batteries direct from Toyota at a good price

[rockdrill]

Richard,

I spoke to one of the guys at work about battery life and his eyebrows shot up when he heard how old they were! I also did a search on here regarding battery life and found an old thread where someone described the sympotms we have and claimed a cure from fitting brand new batteries.........

So two brand new batteries ordered this morning(and delivered to my office by 9.15am) from Mill Auto at a good price.

Will report back on progress.

[NiftyNev]

I read somewhere (can't remember where) that battery condition can play a big part in if a vehicle starts well or not. This is because the voltage may drop so much during cranking it has an adverse effect on sensors and such which will cause problems. Might be a load of bull as well. No harm in trying known good batteries just to test the theory though. As a guide, if batteries drop below 10V during cranking then it's a sign that they are not good.

Nev