Smoke on start-up, rough idle

[daedalusminos]

Roy,

Did you fit new or reconditioned injectors? If new, where did you get them from?

I did an ECU diagnostic check and fault 7 (Throttle Position Sensor) came up, but I cleared that and then had the code 1 (OK). The TPS was probably an old fault from when they put the head on or something, but I will keep an eye on the faults as the ECU light was not illuminated to indicate a fault had been logged - maybe it only lights with a persistant fault?!.

Mine's definitely getting progressively worse and that could be injectors gumming up - I now need to wait for the glow plug beep before attempting to start - it used to start perfectly when the glow lamp when out (approx 1-2s after turning ignition on).

Cheers,

Jonathan

[stormforce]

Roy,

Did you fit new or reconditioned injectors? If new, where did you get them from?

I did an ECU diagnostic check and fault 7 (Throttle Position Sensor) came up, but I cleared that and then had the code 1 (OK). The TPS was probably an old fault from when they put the head on or something, but I will keep an eye on the faults as the ECU light was not illuminated to indicate a fault had been logged - maybe it only lights with a persistant fault?!.

Mine's definitely getting progressively worse and that could be injectors gumming up - I now need to wait for the glow plug beep before attempting to start - it used to start perfectly when the glow lamp when out (approx 1-2s after turning ignition on).

Cheers,

Jonathan

You need to wait for the beep or relay click before starting anyway and not as soon as the light goes out

[daedalusminos]

You need to wait for the beep or relay click before starting anyway and not as soon as the light goes out

My user manual states:-

"Place the key in the ignition and turn to ON, the engine pre-heat light will come on. When the light has gone out start the vehicle"

... whether it's right or wrong, mine always used to start as soon as the light had exstinguished but not now.

[roylittle0]

Roy,

Did you fit new or reconditioned injectors? If new, where did you get them from?

I did an ECU diagnostic check and fault 7 (Throttle Position Sensor) came up, but I cleared that and then had the code 1 (OK). The TPS was probably an old fault from when they put the head on or something, but I will keep an eye on the faults as the ECU light was not illuminated to indicate a fault had been logged - maybe it only lights with a persistant fault?!.

Mine's definitely getting progressively worse and that could be injectors gumming up - I now need to wait for the glow plug beep before attempting to start - it used to start perfectly when the glow lamp when out (approx 1-2s after turning ignition on).

Cheers,

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan

Your error code 7 (Throttle Position Sensor) is more than likely from when the head was replaced, i would suspect that they didn't refit the Throttle Position Sensor cable when it was rebuilt, My injectors were from a surf that didn't have the black smoke monster fitted, so i can only assume that the fault lies somewhere else.

As for starting, i have to agree with Stormy, wait for the relay click at least, i always wait for the buzzer until starting, sometimes let them go twice if its very cold, after the buzzer turn the ignition off and back on again.

[potif]

had this problem with mine a few weeks ago - turned out to be battery problem.

The other interesting thing was that, even though the voltage meter wasn't dropping that far, there was enough of a drop on start up to wipe my radio memory. eventually realised what the problem was when i changed the heater matrix and the car wasn't started for a week or so - battery died completely. Battery level was low - topped up and radio was ok for a couple of days but then problem came back.

Changed the battery and no more lumpy starts or radio memory loss

[daedalusminos]

OK, I tried blanking off the EGR valve with a coke can gasket. That made absolutely no difference to the difficult starting/grey smoke/rough cold idle. I'm not sure whether it's helped with the 'smoke in headlights' feature as roads were full of spray this evening.

Still looking for a solution.... now looking at fuel starvation caused by an airlock - I know my primer doesn't work properly as when I changed the fuel filter, the only way I could prime was to crank for about 30secs (no pressure on the primer plunger). So I was wondering if when left the fuel could drain back, a bit left in the pump/injectors for a start but then runs rough until more is drawn through??? No apparent leaks though.

Still looking and not given up!!!!

Jonathan

[GRASSMAN]

I've had the same probs after changing the starter contacts a few weeks ago. Tracked it down to the ecu temp sensor, (broken wire/sensor) replaced them today, and it started first twist after standing for three days.
BTW no smoke no missfire.

hope this helps
Gman

[daedalusminos]

Hello Gman

Did you have smoke/misfire before fixing the sensor or just difficult starting?

Which ECU temp sensor are you referring to?

Cheers,

Jonathan

[GRASSMAN]

Hello Gman

Did you have smoke/misfire before fixing the sensor or just difficult starting?

Which ECU temp sensor are you referring to?

Cheers,

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

Problem started after I removed the starter motor for repairs, no prob untill then, I think I damaged the sensor/cables refitting it. THEN it would'nt start,
sometimes over 30 seconds churning away, smoke, rattles and missing but fine all day afterwards. The ecu temp sensor is hidden under the inlet manifold
screwed into the block above the starter.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...nsors002-1.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...nsors003-1.jpg

There should be two wires to this sensor.

hope this helps

Gman

[coolsv650]

Hello Gman

Did you have smoke/misfire before fixing the sensor or just difficult starting?

Which ECU temp sensor are you referring to?

Cheers,

Jonathan

The ECU temp sensor is in the block just above the starter motor, and its a complete pain to get to. it tells the ECU what the engine temp is so that it can adjust the fuel accordingly. If it fails completely you would normally get a code 4 warning.

My 2.4 had the exact same problems and had injectors, glowplugs, bypassed the filter head, removed the EGR valve, moved the crankcase blowby pipe from the inlet tract and never managed to solve the problem. Mine happened the same time, after replacing a cracked head.

The only thing I had not tried is a compression test on the cylinders. I know my 2.4 had been seriously overheated and I thought that it might have damaged the rings but couldn't get my hands on a diesel compression test kit.

[daedalusminos]

OK, I'm still working on the difficult start/rough idle/smoke when starting from cold. After reading previous posts I've got a few theories:-

1. The ECU is not fuelling correctly for a cold start.
   As far as I know the engine temperature is determined by comparing the reading from the Engine Coolant Temperature sensor and the Intake Air Temperature sensor - if the coolant is hotter by more than (something like) 10C then a hot start is assumed. Both of these sensors are covered under diagnostics codes (4 and 8) for open (and possibly short) circuit but probably not for out of spec resistance.
   I measured the resistance of each sensor and compared the values to typical values published here. The reading were ECT = 4K88 and IAT = 4K41. These seemed reasonable values considering the outside air temp was approx 7C. The ECT is tucked up under the inlet manifold but is not too bad to get to - remove N/S battery, airbox, fuel filter assy., EGR link pipe and EGR vacuum control assy.
   I also measured the harness for opens and shorts - no problem. There's always a chance the ECU is faulty.
   
2. Airlocks in the fuel line.
   I also had a theory that fuel was syphoning back into the tank - I know my filter primer was faulty so decided to fit an inline hand primer (which has a one way valve in) between filter and pump, I also fitten new fuel line.
   
3. Blocked injectors.
   Does anyone have a source of new injectors? I'm going to find it hard to have the car off the road for a week to have mine reconditioned. I found HIFLO I-NEWTSGR08A-HF but they don't appear to ship international.
   
4. Faulty pump
   Haven't looked at this yet
   
5. Something else!
   Still plenty of other things to try!

Despite trying the above, the problem still exists!

Jonathan

[gwh200]

mine does exactly the same thing, but i just ignore it. it only started doing it after the injection pump was replaced. when i start i get a lot of grey smoke for about 5-10 seconds, but after that its fine. i think it may either be the ecu temp sender thingy from the pump, or it could just be old age. i just start up ,no revs and its well within 10 seconds.

[BUSHWHACKER]

mine does exactly the same thing, but i just ignore it. it only started doing it after the injection pump was replaced. when i start i get a lot of grey smoke for about 5-10 seconds, but after that its fine. i think it may either be the ecu temp sender thingy from the pump, or it could just be old age. i just start up ,no revs and its well within 10 seconds.

You're not THAT old.

[gwh200]

You're not THAT old.

well it is 18 years old in a few momths.its had a new head,glo plugs...and a pump.just think back to circa 1990 when diesels were very agricultural,you had two methods of cold start assist..glo plugs and the fuel pump starting on full fuel,there was no ecu control. its always possible to get it to start faultlessly,but it has to reach a point when you have chucked enough money at it.i do intend to replace the injectors this year,but im not prepared to do any more.it gets serviced regularly so its ended up how its ended up.i just put up with a rough start, but earlier diesels can do this,the only real solution is to replace everything, but i dont feel its worth it for such a minor inconvenience

[BUSHWHACKER]

well it is 18 years old in a few momths.its had a new head,glo plugs...and a pump.just think back to circa 1990 when diesels were very agricultural,you had two methods of cold start assist..glo plugs and the fuel pump starting on full fuel,there was no ecu control. its always possible to get it to start faultlessly,but it has to reach a point when you have chucked enough money at it.i do intend to replace the injectors this year,but im not prepared to do any more.it gets serviced regularly so its ended up how its ended up.i just put up with a rough start, but earlier diesels can do this,the only real solution is to replace everything, but i dont feel its worth it for such a minor inconvenience

OK, but I said YOU'RE NOT THAT OLD.