It's Gorra Go

[rodp]

Now you are taking the proverbial p...! Ask my son who works in Africa on a game ranch which vehicle he prefers and without a doubt it is a Toyota Landcruiser for reliability and traction. When you are out in the bush, you do not want to get stuck and walk miles through a hostile environment to get help.
They have 3 or 4 LRs which have low mileage on them gathering dust in the compound as no one wants to use them. These are based on the LWB Defender chassis. Even the farmers don't want to buy LRs due to being so unreliable.
During recent floods one of the Landcruisers was on its side and submerged for 5 days. They dragged it out, took it to the workshop, gave it a wipe down and it started first time! These LCs are based on the 70 series.
All my friends in Africa have ditched the LR in favour of other 4 x 4s. In days gone by like the sixties and seventies LR was king in Africa, but LR never kept up with technology and other companies did build 4 x 4s that were more reliable.

You're almost correct, and your dates aren't far out. Now go and google it and find out the real reason everyone went to Toyota. The info's there if you look, and it's straight from LR AND Toyota, not from someone's son who knows thingys uncles brother in law who used to drive the tractor on bills brother's estate.
When you've found the facts come back and we'll have a discussion, until then I really can't be bothered with all these fairy stories.

[BUSHWHACKER]

If you think that, then you are perfectly entitled to your opinion,however wrong you are.

If you don't want to come across as a shit stirrer, don't be patronising.

[Wolfracer]

Who wants what from the kiosk then? My treat.

[Albannach]

The info's there if you look, and it's straight from LR AND Toyota, not from someone's son who knows thingys uncles brother in law who used to drive the tractor on bills brother's estate.
When you've found the facts come back and we'll have a discussion, until then I really can't be bothered with all these fairy stories.

There's really no need to be antagonistic in your reply, he is talking about his own son; so the information is reliable and was related first hand.

Why don't you put up your side of the Africa Argument, see how it holds up to scrutiny? The Internet is a very fickle place; not everything on it is correct.

[Fricfrac]

If you don't want to come across as a shit stirrer, don't be patronising.

OK, so you understand, i`ain`t shit stirring and if you read my post as patronising, then there is bugger all i can do about.It wasn`t my intent.

So drop the bullshit eh?

[JD_975]

Good luck with your sale fella, the price your after shouldn't be hard to achieve.

I have to admit I`ve always been impressed with the off road ability of the land rovers that come out with the local group I am in, as you say they seem to be able to do things that on face value they shouldn't come close to being able to do! None of them can touch my surf in heavy mud and I still don't like them lol

[JD_975]

Who wants what from the kiosk then? My treat.

If they have a peanut butter Kitkat chunky I wont say no!

[muddle]

OK, so you understand, i`ain`t shit stirring and if you read my post as patronising, then there is bugger all i can do about.It wasn`t my intent.

So drop the bullshit eh?

mabye it should say slightly emotional under your username...

[rodp]

There's really no need to be antagonistic in your reply, he is talking about his own son; so the information is reliable and was related first hand.

Why don't you put up your side of the Africa Argument, see how it holds up to scrutiny? The Internet is a very fickle place; not everything on it is correct.

Ok, didn't mean to be antagonistic and I apologise. I've been around 4x4's for a very long time now and owned quite a few, most LR's, CJ's, Cherokee's, Unimogs, Austin Champs and Gypsies, the list goes on. What I have found though is that you get "experts" that have owned one model for 12 months and are still in that wonderful world where that particular vehicle is perfect in all respects. This brasses me off when they spout rubbish that just can't be true and you know is false.

Anyhow, back to the question of why Toyota took over from LR in the third world and other countries.
The reason is quite simple and backed up by both LR and Toyota over the years.
Land Rover had a head start on Toyota in the 4x4 market, approximately 10 years (ish), so were well established when Toyota started mass production. LR's marketing advantage over other vehicles was clear to see, they had no competition, there wasn't anything else apart from the yank stuff and they weren't interested as their own market was vast.
After a few years Toyota started mass producing 4x4's AMONGST OTHER VEHICLES. So now you have two players on the scene, one produces nothing but 4x4 and sells a few abroad, the other produces hundreds of thousands of cars and a few 4x4's.
Land Rover decided that the back up required to support the 4x4's they sold abroad cost more than they were making off them and, considering the unprecedented success of the Range Rover on the home market, they pulled the plug.
Toyota on the other hand needed a marketing ploy to sell their cars into the new European market and what better than to play on the reliability of their 4x4's abroad. Bear in mind that no-one was going to buy a Jap car on looks alone in the early seventies. To Toyota the back up required to support the 4x4 market was just another marketing budget.

That's a brief take on it and when you know it all falls into place doesn't it. Land Rover is small and has a thriving home and near home market, Toyota is vast and needs the European market. Simples.

So, unfortunately men, it's nothing to do with reliability, it was all down to the money men as usual. You can google all this via things like Land Rover history or Toyota marketing strategies etc, etc. You'll find out more that way than listening to some know it all on a forum (me included)

The interesting bit is yet to come, Land Rover is absolutely booming (I know this as I do some work for them) and Toyota is a little down in the dumps. Will LR produce a 4x4 to take over the overseas markets again, the Defender replacement is due and Tata is a third world company with vast overseas contacts, what are they planning ??

[Vultch]

Not a 4x4 expert and no awards for driving on the wall..

But i owned a range Rover classic..I loved it the design the off roading the suspension..but its reliability was shocking not just the build quality but the individual components seemed to have a life span of 2 yrs and that was it..
My 4x4 mates all all die hard LR guys freely admit reliability is not their strong point

But business wise - a few yrs ago the company I worked for..a big national interest traded in our LR stuff because it was just too unreliable and besides the repair costs it affected business having no vehicle.. regarding the third world or Australia etc..its reliability ..if the vehicle is good enough 3rd party suppliers will step in to provide spares if the manufacturer pulls out.

The future..yes LR are booming and I spotted one of the new Evoque's and it wasn't bad looking better in the flesh than in pics. Who knows what may emerge ..thou dont write off Toyota they had some bad press over sticky pedals but its not the end of the world for them.

Defence wise I have heard rumours on a replacement for Land Rovers.. unless LR can produce something new it might be a toss up between the Merc G wagon or Toyota and their military offering

[Diezel Weazel]

When ya no longer able to clamber about doing repairs / servicing (part of the Fun, disappears)
Reliability really is Tops or time to sell imho !!

11+ Years of Surfs .... n Faultless to a " T " is my Yota

[Wolfracer]

If they have a peanut butter Kitkat chunky I wont say no!

You're in luck, one left.

[rodp]

Not a 4x4 expert and no awards for driving on the wall..

But i owned a range Rover classic..I loved it the design the off roading the suspension..but its reliability was shocking not just the build quality but the individual components seemed to have a life span of 2 yrs and that was it..
My 4x4 mates all all die hard LR guys freely admit reliability is not their strong point

But business wise - a few yrs ago the company I worked for..a big national interest traded in our LR stuff because it was just too unreliable and besides the repair costs it affected business having no vehicle.. regarding the third world or Australia etc..its reliability ..if the vehicle is good enough 3rd party suppliers will step in to provide spares if the manufacturer pulls out.

The future..yes LR are booming and I spotted one of the new Evoque's and it wasn't bad looking better in the flesh than in pics. Who knows what may emerge ..thou dont write off Toyota they had some bad press over sticky pedals but its not the end of the world for them.

Defence wise I have heard rumours on a replacement for Land Rovers.. unless LR can produce something new it might be a toss up between the Merc G wagon or Toyota and their military offering

You're judging LR by their recent offerings, don't forget it was early seventies when they pulled out, probably late sixties when the idea was first bandied about. The reliability of LR offerings wasn't so bad then as they were up against Gypsies, old wartime jeeps and such.
They didn't need nor want all the hassle of the self repair warranty of the mines and such, they were a relatively small company that could sell everything they could make. When a neighbour of mine bought a brand new series 3 in the early seventies there was a 6 month waiting list, when you have a full order book who needs the hassle of some Aussie navvy breaking his LR every 5 minutes because he wants an early finish.

As for military, didn't LR give up on that ages ago. They only make for the forces when asked to. I think the Wolf was probably the last offering and there's not many of those.

The new Defender will be interesting, haven't several designers from other companies stated (they have) that designing a new one will be the hardest job in the industry. Do they stick with the bolt together, easy to repair format or do they go with the floorpan of something else and welded panels?
Personally I'd like to see it Perentie based so there's a lot more room but it's unlikely.

I've got no bias, I like LR but I've had most other makes and realise LR isn't perfect. But, let's not slag them off just for the say so. If you go to any all make trial it's still mostly LR, doesn't this make you wonder why? There's shoguns, troopers, Toyotas, jeeps and mercs in every breakers, all ready for off roading, but when it comes to competition it's still LR that win.
My last trialler was Suzi based, an SJ410 with 2 ltr 8 valve Calibra engine, ford carb, Gertrac box, Carlton power steering, Ford calipers all round. It took ages to build and was very well specced. It would do a 3rd low standing start almost vertically (it would have fell over if vertical). On the road it would out accelerate a mk1 Golf GTI to about 80 (got unsafe on diamonds then)but it still struggled to beat defenders on a regular basis, it was hard work and luck doing it.

[Surf01]

You're almost correct, and your dates aren't far out. Now go and google it and find out the real reason everyone went to Toyota. The info's there if you look, and it's straight from LR AND Toyota, not from someone's son who knows thingys uncles brother in law who used to drive the tractor on bills brother's estate.
When you've found the facts come back and we'll have a discussion, until then I really can't be bothered with all these fairy stories.

Not fairy stories as I lived and drove in Africa for 22 years on roads that weren't really roads spending weeks at a time in the bush . The real reason was because the Toyota LC was more reliable and could cope with any condition thrown at it. Also they were less prone to rust and many fishermen will testify to this. One of the biggest problems with LR was the half shaft snapping although this mainly driver error coupled with poor design. The LR idea was based on the American Jeep initially.
BTW LR had a manufacturing plant in Blackheath outside Cape Town in South African and I think another in the former colony of Rhodesia. Both are now closed.
Toyota has a modern manufacturing factory at Prospecton outside Durban in South Africa which now exports vehicles. Landrover parts were always easier to obtain throughout Africa. The first Toyota was imported into SA in 1961.

[s car go]

Also they were less prone to rust and many fishermen will testify to this.

Interesting Thread!

This makes me smile all the time,when people say Toyotas don't rust.They do,and shockingly! The 4 runners rot at the door bottoms,inner and outer arches,sil sections and the boot lids. The 95 Range Rover I owned for 5 years was immaculate body wise but the quality of the interior plastiuc was woefull ,compared to the Toyota.
The V8 in the Range Rover is just music!!!!!

Regards

Mark