World after oil

[Apache]

Seems as though there's a circular argument going on here.

Nuclear power is the answer to electricity supply - which is the answer to producing hydrogen in useful amounts. BTW, I've never heard of hydrogen leaking through steel tanks before. Wonder why they didn't lose the hydrogen from the fuel cells in the 60's and 70's spaceflights (excepting Apollo 13-like explosive losses!)

France is (all?) nuclear, and is where we buy a lot of our electricity from (via the Channel DC Connector)

[popuptoaster]

It applies more to liquid hydrogen than the compressed stuff although compressed hydrogen will also escape through steel very slowly.

B&E estimates that a liquid hydrogen tank designed for automobile use will loose about 5% of its capacity every day, which is to say that all of it will be gone in 20 days. Losses of this magnitude are acceptable for, say, a taxicab fleet, but unacceptable to most people.

from here

http://planetforlife.com/h2/h2swiss.html

[Sancho]

I think the report refers to leaks through valves etc, rather than hydrogen permeating steel.

In any case, my point still stands. When we do start running out of fossil fuel, we can use nuclear if needs be. In the meantime, we are constantly working on ways to reduce the amount of energy we actually need, from building more thermally efficient homes, to reducing the amount of heated water we consume, to creating more energy efficient products to (dare I say it) trying to get people out of their cars.

PVs and solar hot water are far more efficient than they used to be and are still evolving. They will improve. Do you really think that companies like BP and Shell are willing to just pack up their bags and stop when the oil runs out? They are already very much on the case working out how to make renewables work.

I agree, if we ran out of oil tomorrow, we'd be screwed, but we're not going to. It will run out, but we are constantly working towards meaning that when the day comes it will have long since ceased to matter.

[flounderbout]

Nuclear plants cannot replace current fossil fuel plants, since they are only useful for providing a "base" amount of power - they cannot respond quickly to changes in demand which is essential to the opreation of the National Grid. Many alternative power sources suffer a similar deficiency.

As for people not being able to tell where the next big technological breakthrough will come from, it was ever thus. The internal combustion engine was not foreseen as a viable alternative to horse power at the turn of the twentieth century.

There is an interesting read in SuperFreakonomics (the sequel to the excellent Freakonomics) about the crisis facing populated cities from the huge amount of horse dung to which there appeared to be no solution - right before the car took over almost overnight.

So I am broadly with Sancho.

On the other hand, we may all be doomed. Hey ho.

Oh, and as oil and food gets more expensive, it is the poor around the world who will suffer the most. As the forum firebrand will tell you, this is because of the hated Tories and the emasculation of the unions.

[puddlesurfer]

Oh, and as oil and food gets more expensive, it is the poor around the world who will suffer the most. As the forum firebrand will tell you, this is because of the hated Tories and the emasculation of the unions.

(IN BEST TORY VOICE) Let's burn the poor to keep warm, thus eliminating world poverty, hunger and solving 90% of our fuel needs!

[flounderbout]

I think Bio already suggested this above...

[Scorpion]

Thanks for this thread guys, I was in a really good mood prior to reading this. Now I'm just popping out to the garden shed with my noose!

[flounderbout]

Thanks for this thread guys, I was in a really good mood prior to reading this. Now I'm just popping out to the garden shed with my noose!

It would be more carbon efficient to bury yourself...

[puddlesurfer]

I think Bio already suggested this above...

I think the right honerable gentleman was in favour of rendering chavs for no useful reason, where as I am in fact providing several solutions to current problems. Not too sure where I would stand on global warming though.

[puddlesurfer]

It would be more carbon efficient to bury yourself...

Then you could be used as compost

[gwh200]

Legalese speak/hot air generated forward propulsion...shouting for the defence could get you 30 mph, and a range of 10 miles!

[puddlesurfer]

Legalese speak/hot air generated forward propulsion...shouting for the defence could get you 30 mph, and a range of 10 miles!

Anything for better fuel economy!

[biosurf]

I think the right honerable gentleman was in favour of rendering chavs for no useful reason, where as I am in fact providing several solutions to current problems.

Quite wrong I'm afraid old bean. As a waste oil burner I'm quite serious. Offer some free lipo and I believe the fat cnuts would no doubt beat a slow and wobbly path (later trench) to the door. We have a trailblazer here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5393763.ece

Surplus flesh needing to be removed could be put back into the Asda Beige Brand and the process could loop beautifully.

Yes theres diminishing returns but they manage to pop out so many replacement rotoddlers that there will always be the resource.


The future is (Soylent) green

[HONEST AL]

Dieing in alphabetical order

It would be more carbon efficient to bury yourself...

It might be better for the environment if people died around mid October,they could be useful at Halloween,penny for the guy,bonfire night and then,as an end of life byproduct,their ashes could be scattered on the roads when it snowed !!!!

[popuptoaster]

Thing is though the car didnt replace the horse overnight, it was trains that first brought transport to the masses but they still used horses for local work.


Internal combustion engines were around for 70 years before daimler got one running well enough to make a car out of it and then it was another 50 or 60 odd years before "the masses" could reasonably expect to be able to afford one.

Things move faster now with better comunication and computers for testing, but by the same token we are trying to invent much more sophisticated devices these days, so if the same time scale happend today and someone invented a motor that ran on water or air tomorrow, it could still take a LONG time before it was affordable and reliable enough for ordinary people to have.