Cooling Answer I've not seen covered in forum yet

[Keith]

There is no getting away from the fact that lots of 2.4's are likely to crack heads when about 12 years old. I am unaware of the heads going in a similar way at ages less that about 12 and all things being equal they are OK when they have been replaced. This rather suggests to me that the main reason for the head going is old age. Perhaps the 3.0 litre is better but then again they have not got to 12 years old yet.
If we did a survey of all cars of 12 years plus would we find that heads are beginning to go?
I am no mechanic or engineer but having replaced my head suspect that the car will be about 24 when it goes again.

Keith

[v0n]

That's what I thought - I've read as much as I could about the head issues and as far as I can see it's indeed more related to age or maybe even mileage than anything else. As far as I can read there was never a recall regarding faulty cylinder heads, only head gaskets causing cylinder heads to leak. And correct me if I'm wrong we had people with cars not matching Model and Chasis numbers on recall complaing about cylinder heads popping. IIRC there was only one or two threads about new, boxed head and fresh gasket going soon after replacement, but it seemed more like bad garage job. In general I haven't seen any complaints about reoccuring cylinder head issues after replacements, but I personally think it's too soon to wave the flag. Give it another 120,000 kilometers and who knows...

[stara]

There is no getting away from the fact that lots of 2.4's are likely to crack heads when about 12 years old. I am unaware of the heads going in a similar way at ages less that about 12 and all things being equal they are OK when they have been replaced. This rather suggests to me that the main reason for the head going is old age. Perhaps the 3.0 litre is better but then again they have not got to 12 years old yet.

If we did a survey of all cars of 12 years plus would we find that heads are beginning to go?
I am no mechanic or engineer but having replaced my head suspect that the car will be about 24 when it goes again.

Keith

DODGY SURF HEAD THEORY #2A:-
If the head is subjected to a rapid change in temp, such as if a thermostat is faulty and allows the head to become overly hot before a surge of relatively cool water is passed through the head when the 'stat eventually opens, this rapid change in temp will force the head to contract suddenly where the coolant flows, causing the typical cracks between waterways and combustion chambers.

overheating is a usually symptom not a cause of a cracked head, head gasket failure is more likely due to head warpage after a major overheat, the head will only crack if it is rapidly cooled.

[Rob]

I don't have a 2.4, but I'm going with the theory that the Surf 2.4 turbo is prone to cracked heads regardless, especially with age, but over-heating or flushing the cooling system free of radweld seems to 'bring on' the cracked head probs. Sod the recall chassis nos, plenty ouside of the affected range have had cracked heads, according to info posted here and elsewhere.
However, there are plenty of UK spec 2.4 Hiluxes around that don't have this prob as far as I've heard (correct me if I'm wrong), and they've been around in non-turbo form for nearly 20 years and the turbo form for nearly 15 years (that's a guess but it has to be close). So what's the deal here then? Surely it has to be down to design or maintenance? Or, at worst, Jap driving conditions, but I don't buy that. But why would a Jap spec 2LT/2LTE head be different from a UK spec one? Then again, Elvz did once hint at autos being more likely to crack a head than a manual.....

Btw, I thought that alloy heads are morely likely to warp and cast heads are more likely to crack during large temp fluctuations etc including overheating..?

Another thing, why do all the hot countries (Africa, Asia, Middle East, Australia etc) get 2.8 (3L) and 3.0 (1KZ-T/1KZ-TE/5L-E) engines as standard in the Hilux and not the 2.4 (2LT/2LT-E) ????
Hmm, too many questions there I think!

[Elvz]

You might want to read this:

http://www.cummins.com/na/pdf/en/dis...werup_v4_1.pdf

This is the basic reason why diesel heads crack. It affects all types of engine but obviously engines that are less well maintained or more highly stressed are going to fail earlier than average.

[Koi]

I don't really for sure know why my head cracked, but it did. When I first bought my Surf I then read up about them (bought it first then did the fact finding afterwards, as you do) the head talk gave me paranoia after buying it, as it probably does to others now.
I read stuff on flushing, changing stats etc the list was endlesss, I saw the stuff on recalls and that it was a batch of badly designed heads, in that the water ways were to near the valve guides so didn't allow for good cooling. Well after following all advice about flushing changing stats etc 9 months went by and I took my eye off the temp guage as I thought, well if it was going to go it would have gone by now.1 week short of a years ownership it went, cracked in two places. I contacted Toyota UK to enquire about recalls etc, now they didn't deny there had been any recalls, just wouldn't honour it because the vehicle is now outside the market for which it was made. The recalls were only LOCAL SERVICE recalls for a mechanical defect not a worldwide recall which they have to do if it a safety aspect, so local service recalls will only be honoured in the market they were sold to. They did contact Toyota Japan and came backk to me that my Surf was not on a recall list anyway.
I use to think it was a bad design???????????? now I really don't know.
So there you have it, bad design maybe, but it can't be that bad that it takes 12 to 13 years to become apparent, maybe its the crap servicing and care it had before i bought it. Maybe it was because it now went over 40mph and didn't spend all day sat in traffic. Maybe it was just one of those things, who knows for sure, we can all speculate til the cows come home, but I don't think we will really know for sure why it happens.
What I do know is that my Surf has a new head in it and if it lasts for another 12 years I'll be happy with it, but I suspect with the right care, servicing & maintainance it will now get it will last a lot longer.
What I do know is you are buying a 12,13,14 + year old motor in some cases with no service history, stood at some docks for months on end, put on a boat ferried over here and sold to you. You buy it because you want to, it looks good, very clean & tidy, something a bit different.
If that was an Escort, Astra, Sierra, Cavalier, Rover etc etc wouldn't have given it a second glance, just merely walked on pass.
Above all I like my Surf, I will buy another, like all things in life theres good and bad, you buy a 10 year old motor and it never misses a beat, you buy a brand new car and have nothing but trouble (been there my self).
Go and log into the landie forums or the pajero, scooby, sony, suzuki, vauxhall, any forum in fact and you will see everything starts to have a common denominator once one person mentions it four more join and talk it to death. But look closely, a bit deeper and harder and you will see in all these cases it really only a handfull of people effected in each case.
So like all things in life you have a choice, if the minority head stories scare you don't buy it.
Yes the stories are a minority, its just the few are just talked about for ever and ever and until they bore the pants off you.
If the head stories don't worry you then you will have a very nice motor indeed.
I for one would like this head stuff put to bed for once and for all, it happens, its life, you all telling me that you never had nothing go wrong with something you bought. And when it does you then tell every person you met about it, did you then tell every person how good your 10 year old washing machine was, thought not.

[Elvz]

Strange you should mention washing machines Nigel...

My washing machine is a Miele W700 which I bought when I was pregnant with my daughter. She's 13 now and I haven't spent a single penny on the machine until this year. It's always just been there and worked when I wanted it to but a couple of months ago it suddenly decided to toast the clothes instead of wash them. I thought about buying another machine but it was quicker to get the existing one fixed so I phoned Miele.

2 days later the Miele man came round and took about 5 minutes to unblock a sensor tube that I didn't know was there and another half hour checking the rest of the machine.

I asked the Miele guy if I should be thinking about getting a new machine and he said that my existing one will probably run for another 5 to 7 years before it needs another repair.

Total cost for 13 years maintainence = £87.50 and even that I could have avoided paying if I'd looked at the machine a bit more closely when I had it apart.

[kitesurf_phil]

Strange you should mention washing machines Nigel...

My washing machine is a Miele W700 which I bought when I was pregnant with my daughter. She's 13 now and I haven't spent a single penny on the machine until this year. It's always just been there and worked when I wanted it to but a couple of months ago it suddenly decided to toast the clothes instead of wash them. I thought about buying another machine but it was quicker to get the existing one fixed so I phoned Miele.

2 days later the Miele man came round and took about 5 minutes to unblock a sensor tube that I didn't know was there and another half hour checking the rest of the machine.

I asked the Miele guy if I should be thinking about getting a new machine and he said that my existing one will probably run for another 5 to 7 years before it needs another repair.

Total cost for 13 years maintainence = £87.50 and even that I could have avoided paying if I'd looked at the machine a bit more closely when I had it apart.

Mrs KS got rid of our 20 year old Zanussi Washing machine. All that was wrong was the drum bearing had become noisy. She insisted that it is about time she had a new one. I would like to bet that when the new one goes wrong we will have to call an, "expert."
In the first ten years the machine gave us no trouble. In the last ten years I have replaced the pump (too many socks, coins etc stuck in the filter), the door (glass bowl broken by a daughter, who shall remain nameless, who was told that bouncing marbles on the kitchen floor would end in tears) and a drum drive belt.
Not bad for a mid priced machine.

[silvtr1000]

I love my Honda FireStorm. Even with it's uncomfy handlebars, rattly camchain, wobbly cush drive rubbers, and rear-wheel-lock-up-on-downshift. Because I LOVE its sound, the way it looks, and the immense acceleration.

I loved my Discovery, despite sagging suspension and shot CV (replaced for £75 punts).

I don't have any particular passion for my washing machine, or any of my appliances for that matter.

I agree with what you say Koi - we buy things we like because we like them. We like them even with their faults. My wife is cranky, but I like her. I'm lazy, but she likes me (when she's not cranky). I will still buy a 2.4 Surf, and if I turn out to be unlucky, so be it - at least the wonder of "is my head going to crack" will disappear. If it does go, I'll replace what I have to, and then should have a cool car for another 12 years.

I can appreciate the long-termers on this forum being fed up with this topic popping up again and again, and I sympathise. Bear in mind though, a letter in this month's 4x4 magazine asks about the availability of info & resources for the Surf. The mag plans an article in the near future on "this increasingly popular import". Everybody's going to want one, and everybody's going to come to this site & forum (the best) to find out about "the head problem"....

[Rica]

Nother newbie probably s peaking out of turn ;-).... but I thought the problem was that the heads were often cracked (but not showing any outward signs) BEFORE they got over here....then our long runs on motorways (in Japan they do short runs apparently) caused the engine to heat up proper and that was the straw that broke the camels back (or head)?
Dunno....but thats what I was told by someone who seemed in the know

PS how do I insert those smiley things? (bit of a 'puter newbie too)

[Morr]

.....PS how do I insert those smiley things? (bit of a 'puter newbie too)

when typing your reply, just click on the drop down arrow beside the smiley face at the top of the window in which you are typing, select desired smiley and click it to insert