Nasty accident in cornwall yesterday

[RodLeach]

Thats why the ARBs need to stay on if the truck is used mainly for road/commuting use.

Couldn't agree more! Keeping the ARB's is one thing that was very high on my list.

Without is fine going straight but the one moment you need to swerve to avoid something....

[pirate-storm]

all i seen was the air ambulance fly over once didnt know nothing about the accident till on the news when they said, n said we had bad weather we had a black cloud come over but didnt have bad weather n im right next to victoria. but then ive seen a street in bristol with sunshine upto the whiteline in center of road n other side it was pee-ing it down.
the pic they showed on the news def looked like a surf with a wheel carrier on the back

[ian and jean]

http://www.piratefm102.co.uk/news.asp

now pirate fm radio station, says that 8 were injured on the slip road to the A30, and doesn't sound that 8 were in a surf unless i read that wrong!!

[Apache]

Must have driving beyond your capabilites then, not the cars.

Absolutely.

Same can be said about the Surf. Drive within its capabilities (which change with removal of ARB) and you'll be absolutely fine.

[gwh200]

Couldn't agree more! Keeping the ARB's is one thing that was very high on my list.

Without is fine going straight but the one moment you need to swerve to avoid something....

not strictly true rod.....
i have no arb's and have changed my driving style to suit.it was never a fast car anyway,and having to slow up just a little more is no great hardship.as i have 'gone up' soi have made the shock absorber capabilities more stiff. the most dangerous thing in a vehicle is and always will(potentially be) the driver

[Apache]

not strictly true rod.....
i have no arb's and have changed my driving style to suit.it was never a fast car anyway,and having to slow up just a little more is no great hardship.as i have 'gone up' soi have made the shock absorber capabilities more stiff. the most dangerous thing in a vehicle is and always will(potentially be) the driver

Precisely Gra. ARBs are more of a comfort device.

If you are stupid enough to hare around beyond the limits of your brakes (2 tons is ALWAYS hard to stop) and handling, then you are an accident waiting to happen.

Surf's (and indeed any large heavy vehicle) are meant to be driven with caution.

[lord lucan]

if you swerved sharpley at 20mph to avoid say a kid running out in front of you with no arb,s and a lift, it will roll.

[Sancho]

if you swerved sharpley at 20mph to avoid say a kid running out in front of you with no arb,s and a lift, it will roll.

[BUSHWHACKER]

if you swerved sharpley at 20mph to avoid say a kid running out in front of you with no arb,s and a lift, it will roll.

They won't listen mate, not until it happens to them.

[gwh200]

if you swerved sharpley at 20mph to avoid say a kid running out in front of you with no arb,s and a lift, it will roll.

driving along the a259 near pevensey in east sussex,in the pouring rain,a car coming from the opposite direction decided to overtake,and didnt see me only about 50 feet in front of him. i swerved as sharply as i could(on full lock as it turned out)went sideways and managed to miss the oncoming car.yes it did lean over,but at no time did it lift a wheel,or feel like going over.this is the only experience i have of getting the thing sideways,and was due to someone elses stupidity.i do have the benefit of having driven wagons and coaches for 15 years,and with regards especially to double deck coaches,with approx 70 people and there luggage,its incredibly easy to turn one of these over(m24/m4 junction last year sometime).the point you appear to be missing is that a change in suspension /arb setting will result in a handling difference,but should be compensated for amending your driving style.if your not capable of slowing down with a modified truck,then yes you are probably going to come a cropper some day,in the same way boy racers with there cars slammed to the deck come a cropper,when they go to fast and end up parked in a tree.a general statement such as "if you have a lifted truck and no arb's you will tip over" is not only tenuous and misleading,its just plain wrong.
apache and myself run roughly the same setup and have amended our driving style to suit(but as im in a 2.4 i dont generally have the option of speed)

[Apache]

ARBs are not there to stop the truck tipping over, they are there to keep the body reasonably flat on the chassis under dynamic conditions. The weight shift is not hugely greater if you have no ARBs as shift will be constrained by things like the panhard rod / trailing arms etc.

More important are properly inflated tyres suited to the terrain - ie NOT the fashion for huge mud tyres (Rod, are you listening). A truck with ARBs removed on ATs will be 'safer' (if you want to use that phrase) than one with ARBs on improperly inflated overside mud tyres. I guarantee it. Neither is 'unsaffe' if driven by someone who is aware of the handling features of their vehicle.

ANY high vehicle will be more liable to tipping / instability than a low one. Please dont all jump to 'knee jerk' pub-expert judgements as is becoming the norm on this place and offer unsubstantiated semi-facts when you are not in possession of any evidence.

If you like, do the maths, and post it up on here for critique, because I foor one am sick of the all the 'semi-fact' and 'pseudo-science' posted up here lately.

Sorry for the rant. Back on heads.

[Sancho]

I for one am sick of the all the 'semi-fact' and 'pseudo-science' posted up here lately.

Andy, you took moody medicine instead of benylin again.

Pseudo science is the life blood of forums, there would be nothing to talk about if we all stuck to known facts as we would then all agree.

So.....my understanding (which I have no hint of being incorrect) on ARBs is that they work, basically, by lifting the 'inner' wheel as the 'outer' one is pushed up towards the chassis, thereby reducing body roll partly for the sake of comfort but also as this will keep the vehicle level and discourage it from turning over. Without using big science words (sorry), it becomes a lower down thing being tipped over so needs more force to tip it, hence is less likely to roll.

If you remove the ARB, you lose the ability to make it a lower down thing. If you lift it, you make it an even higher up thing to start with.

Seeing as we are objecting to all inaccuracies, I suppose I should pick you up on "they are there to keep the body reasonably flat on the chassis". The body is always flat on the body. It is attached to it. The ARB is there to keep the chassis reasonably flat on the road.

[Apache]

The ARBs have much less effect than you think. If they were capable of applying great force in order to keep the chassis level (body on bidy typed in angry haste, I admit) then the attachment points would be greater than the puny fixing that exist.

The reason people may *think* they are tipping over is that there is more body roll without them, BUT your wheels are on the ground.

Simple fact is mate, big tyres have a much bigger effect with all that uncontrolled sidewall flex.

What I object to is the conjecture which is painted as fact. Yes, I know its a fact of life on forums (and down the pub) but I do wish people wouldn't be so vehement about it when it affects the decisions people are making re. modifying their vehicles.

1) Dont put your spare on the roof, your Surf will fall over - Bullsh1t
2) Dont take your ARB off - see above - Bullsh1t
3) You can MAKE energy
4) You need extended panhard rod if you lift your truck 2" - Bullsh1t

Maybe I'm in a bad mood still cos I'm not sleeping properly, but I do wish if people dont know what they're talking about, they would qualify what they are saying with *I'm no expert, but X might be Y*

Apologies again if I've offended anyone.

[Sancho]

Science isn't my thing but for what it's worth, whilst I'm sticking to my guns on the ARB, I agree on the tyre thing.

Never heard to the spare on the roof tipping it over. That counts as silly in my book.

I can't make energy, but I have got a stirling engine that appears (if you don't know what it is, or how it works) to go round for no particular reason. Both the cat and I are huge fans of watching it spin.

[RodLeach]

More important are properly inflated tyres suited to the terrain - ie NOT the fashion for huge mud tyres (Rod, are you listening).

1) Dont put your spare on the roof, your Surf will fall over - Bullsh1t
2) Dont take your ARB off - see above - Bullsh1t
3) You can MAKE energy
4) You need extended panhard rod if you lift your truck 2" - Bullsh1t

Maybe I'm in a bad mood still cos I'm not sleeping properly, but I do wish if people dont know what they're talking about, they would qualify what they are saying with *I'm no expert, but X might be Y*

Apologies again if I've offended anyone.

I think we need to clear the Air.

Im sick to death of the constant sh!t you give everytime about my choice in tyres. It really, REALLY annoys the cr*p out of me. Im sorry but ive spoken to people who know far more about this kinda thing then the majourity of people who browse this forum!!

They are my tyres on my truck so frankly mate - shove it!
as for the fashion of 'big muds' ... where the hell has that come from?

the person who felt it so important to get the 13.50 wide ... what about the whole thin tyres outperforming wide ones? Your as guilty as i am in what helped sway your choice.

Im sorry if im treading on your toes! i really am. Its not my wish to cause cr*p on here!

As far as the spare on the roof thing, i know that is aimed square at me! Im the one who said it... WTF do you expect me to do? Just ignore Mudsurfer with a request for some info/help? Ive read on yotatech that its a bad idea!! I dont know FFS!! But why get so sh!tty about me mentioning it?
the amount of times ive read things on here that might be in my opinon wrong.... But its not important! Its really not.

Im not sure what happened but somewhere along the line i guess i pi**ed you off!

Sorry if i did.... but i dont think i care anymore!!