Madeleine

[MattF]

We don't know for fact, how far aware they were for hotel room? If they could see the room from where they were? Did they know people in nearby rooms ? Was it easy for passers by to enter the complex?:

Untill this is known,,,people shouldn't jump on the bandwagon and slag off the parents.

Simple answer. They were far enough away, or paying little enough attention, for their child to disappear.

[slim]

I kept away from this thread, but have watched it with interest!

I will not judge the parents as the circumstances have been given to us by the media, maybe when/if all this is over i will be able to give them my penny's worth if the circumstances around the situation are found to be true!

All i can think about is poor little maddie!

What must she be going through? it must be so confusing for her! I say this with the thought that it could have been my daughter! I do hope that she is re-united with her family safe and sound.

I have not mensioned a possible other situation as i hope it does not come to that.

[biglouieuk]

I have to say, I personally wouldn't have left my kids alone as they did. However, in their every day life, why would they have ever even considered the fact that their child would be abducted. As I say, I wouldnt leave my kids, and they could have used the child minder service, BUT as a parent you do get overly relaxed about these things.

My 18 month old child was taken nearly 18 months ago (we got him back within the hour), old bill were amazing. My wife stopped at the bottle bank in town, lovely leafy place, 18 month old in the car seat. As she got out of the car and went round to the other side to open the passenger door to get bottles out, some local smack head jumped in, ran over the wife (shes fine too!) and stole the car.

Our child was missing for 60 minutes or so, he was found in the bogs of a local railway station. Subsequently the car was found a day later, offender caught, local smack head, he went down for six months.

Anyway, we wouldnt give a story or interview to the press and the communications guys from work did a press release for me. At the time the Mail, Express etc etc wanted us to do an exclusive story and send us away on holiday blah blah. I didnt want a jot of it. We had the boy back, thats all that counted. However, the news reported it as "irresponsible mother leaves nipper in the car while she swans around the bottle bank". An NSPCC spokes person said that parents should get a grip and that leaving your kid in the car is asking for you to have them taken.

Well all i say to that is this. Try living your life in that way, thinking that something will happen at every turn and you wouldnt leave your house. My wife was a mess after the event, she couldnt believe she had let this happen. But why would she ever think that this would happen? Of course it can and does happen, but you dont and cant live your life expecting it to!

My point is. I wouldnt have done what the parents did, as leaving the kids in the house is a big no no for me. However, bear in mind that we all do things that we perceive are safe due to the fact we have done them a million times. Sometimes we get it wrong with disasterous results. Spare a thought for the parents, they made a mistake, and now they are going through the worst kind of hell imaginable. I personally havent slept a decent night since that little girl was taken. I guess because it brings back my own memories and thoughts about my child and what might be happening to him when he was away from us.

Don't waste time judging the parents, they know they did the wrong thing. I just hope they find her soon and she can be back at home with her family.

And as far as the media go, I can only relay my own experience. Did the media try to kill each other to get our story? Yes. Did they try and sensationalise it? Yes. Did they offer us incentives to provide the story to them? Yes. Did they seem at all interested in the truth or the facts? Nope. Did they give it a negative spin because we refused to bow to their demands of sensationalism and provide that picture of us in front of our house with our family all looking dreaful? Definately. Front page news in the local rag, had to be! But no picture of us, just a picture of a bottle bank! They were gutted. hence negative story.

The NSPCC have apologised for their spokes persons comment, and that it was taken slightly out of context. But its the last time I do the bar for my old dears NSPCC money spinners.

Did we make a mistake? Of course we did. We are all responsible for EVERYTHING that happens to our kids. Period. Keys were taken out and put in the centre console. Missus should have had them in her pocket. But the thing is, you just dont expect these things to happen, let alone to happen to you, in your town at your bottle bank/garage/playground when you are in arms length of the car! And sometimes, sadly, it does.

Blame is not helpful now. We just need to find her and get her back.

Six months inside for: stealing a car, running over a 5ft nothing woman and kidnapping her child, trying to sell the car in the high street for 200 quid to another smackhead, WITH the kid in the back. Thats another story entirely.

[max6674]

We all only know facts given to us by the press...

We don't know for fact, how far aware they were for hotel room? If they could see the room from where they were? Did they know people in nearby rooms ? Was it easy for passers by to enter the complex?:

Untill this is known,,,people shouldn't jump on the bandwagon and slag off the parents.

Far enough if you ask me... and I dont think they would have been able to see the room from where they where... and the press cant really lie with an areial pic of the complex.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6667307.stm#map

[max6674]

biglouieuk


I can only sympathise with you and your family and I’m glad that you are all ok !

No one would have dreamed that just being at a bottle bank to drop off your empties would have ended this way. This is a freak and callous crime by someone clearly off his head and looking for a way to get quick cash. This would no way have been predicted and your child was not left unsupervised in the same manor as poor Maddy. From what I have read your wife was only a few feet away and this was an opportunist thief, who obviously meant no harm to the child (its just a shame it happened and your poor good lady wife was run over trying to save your child).

However Maddys situation is a far cry from yours. Her parents left her alone in a room while they went out for a good time. There where not even close by and how long where they gone for? They have a nanny at home and didn’t take her on holiday plus there was a nanny service at the complex which they failed to use.

They have failed their child in every way shape and form here and they should be hung out to dry..

[biglouieuk]

I agree, what they did was utterly wrong fella. I just really feel for them. They made a huge mistake doing what they did, and I am sure they can't believe they did it themselves. Now they are paying a massive price. I hope she is well where ever she is, as I know we all do.

The press. Dreadful lot in my experience.

[Dori]

having read this thread, i felt that i had to comment. as far as the parents go, i am disgusted, i have 5 children from 8 weeks old to nearly 8 years old and i live on a housing association estate, i wouldn't dream of leaving my children alone or even let them out of my sight unless there is a responsible adult with them that i know very well (a member of the family). i don't even like my children playing upstairs as they will go into the bathroom and play with water and it scares me, i always fear the worst and try to plan ahead, for example, i will ask my husband to pop out and get fuel for me so i do not have to take all my kids into the petrol station to pay.

I am very over protective as far as my children are concerned but as a parent, being over protective can also be a bad thing as your children need to learn some things for theirselves the hard way or as they grow up, they will become over dependant on you (as i was wrapped in cotton wool when i was little, i know this first hand, children either tend to rebel or become scared of the outside world and not have many experiences in life and feel that they can't make decisions for themselves which can lead to o.c.d and severe depression as in my case!)
i believe that maddy's parents should have known better, especially being doctors, they should have never left those children alone. surely as doctors, they have seen children that are mentally scared from being poorly cared for as it is unfortunatly very common all over the world, no doubt they have had to refer people to social services before so they should know what is right and what is wrong. they have to live with this for the rest of their lives whether maddy is found or not, i hope that the truth is found out and the parents are punished accordingly. i believe that their competancy as doctors should be questioned aswell, as a gp, level headed judgement is required and they obviously do not have that or this would not have happened and maddy and her siblings would never have been left alone.

i sincerely hope that maddy is found alive and re-united with her family as i wouldn't wish it upon anybody, no matter how irresponsible they are!

[Mitsy]

having read this thread, i felt that i had to comment. as far as the parents go, i am disgusted, i have 5 children from 8 weeks old to nearly 8 years old and i live on a housing association estate, i wouldn't dream of leaving my children alone or even let them out of my sight unless there is a responsible adult with them that i know very well (a member of the family). i don't even like my children playing upstairs as they will go into the bathroom and play with water and it scares me, i always fear the worst and try to plan ahead, for example, i will ask my husband to pop out and get fuel for me so i do not have to take all my kids into the petrol station to pay.

I am very over protective as far as my children are concerned but as a parent, being over protective can also be a bad thing as your children need to learn some things for theirselves the hard way or as they grow up, they will become over dependant on you (as i was wrapped in cotton wool when i was little, i know this first hand, children either tend to rebel or become scared of the outside world and not have many experiences in life and feel that they can't make decisions for themselves which can lead to o.c.d and severe depression as in my case!)
i believe that maddy's parents should have known better, especially being doctors, they should have never left those children alone. surely as doctors, they have seen children that are mentally scared from being poorly cared for as it is unfortunatly very common all over the world, no doubt they have had to refer people to social services before so they should know what is right and what is wrong. they have to live with this for the rest of their lives whether maddy is found or not, i hope that the truth is found out and the parents are punished accordingly. i believe that their competancy as doctors should be questioned aswell, as a gp, level headed judgement is required and they obviously do not have that or this would not have happened and maddy and her siblings would never have been left alone.

i sincerely hope that maddy is found alive and re-united with her family as i wouldn't wish it upon anybody, no matter how irresponsible they are!

HEAR HEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BUSHWHACKER]

Truth

What is the truth? What actually happened does anyone really know? The media is a cruel hungry beast.

IF they are guilty and the way it SEEMS now, well they should suffer the consequences of their actions whatever that may be. I see it as quite simple in distinction - it's either a 'family holiday' or a 'romantic holiday for two', can't have it both ways! At least they could've avoided scrutiny and been able to say "she was stolen as they turned round" or "under the watchful eye of a guardian" if left back at home etc.

As for those .........(and I won't insult animals) ....they are SCUM!

That's me done. Bushwhacker is cringing as I type, so best I go.

Mrs B

[AuldNick]

"well they should suffer the consequences of their actions"

OK, so what would your punishment be? Jail, A fine, community service or steal the three year old first born?!
FFS you lot are amazing. Bunch of self rightious pricks.

Meantime there is a wee girl missing so go something to help, try post sticky threads in other sites you use and keep this in the news.

Is this sticky here? Is it $$$$. Hang your heads in shame.

[MattF]

"well they should suffer the consequences of their actions"

OK, so what would your punishment be? Jail, A fine, community service or steal the three year old first born?!
FFS you lot are amazing. Bunch of self rightious pricks.

When one can judge by ones own standards without being hypocritical, too sodding right I'm judgemental. They deserve far worse than anything they can ever be given if the stories as to their parental concern are even partially true. Self righteousness has no relevance in this context.

Meantime there is a wee girl missing so go something to help, try post sticky threads in other sites you use and keep this in the news.

Is this sticky here? Is it $$$$. Hang your heads in shame.

Right, Simple point. Whilst one truly does hope that the child has suffered no harm and will be returned safely, for what reason is shame due?

[max6674]

"well they should suffer the consequences of their actions"

OK, so what would your punishment be? Jail, A fine, community service or steal the three year old first born?!
FFS you lot are amazing. Bunch of self rightious pricks.

Meantime there is a wee girl missing so go something to help, try post sticky threads in other sites you use and keep this in the news.

Is this sticky here? Is it $$$$. Hang your heads in shame.

First Lyall of all I you don’t know me, you don’t know anything about me or most of the other forum members so what gives you the right to call us all self righteous pricks?

Just because we don’t have the same views as you on this subject is no need to start with name calling on a public forum. I don’t think this is what a forum is all about, its about voicing your own opinions and gathering the opinions of other forum users and respecting them for that and for their beliefs.

As for this post not being a sticky, maybe this is you being self righteous?
If this post has fallen down the pecking order its down to the fact that people have either had their say already or they don’t have anything to say on the matter, that’s just life. Why should we hang our heads in shame, that’s for Maddys parents to do!


Question for you Lyall, if this couple left their children in the UK unattended and went on holiday would you views be the same? Somehow I don’t think they would, but because this tragedy has happened while they where all on holiday “together” then its suddenly all forgotten that the parents NEGLECTED their child.

Press reports are now coming in that this is not the first time they have left their children while they have gone and done “their thing” on holiday, so its not like it’s a one off, its something they do regularly. Doctors are they..? are they not supposed to be able to see the signs of child neglect? They have failed themselves and their children badly here.. As stated before I do hope they find Maddy alive and well, as we all do on this forum, but out of respect I think this thread should be put to rest?

[Apache]

I too have been shying away from this emotive thread, and now have decided to post I will keep it short because I have to get up early and what I do have to say is simple.

The world isn't full of freaks, perverts, weirdos, psychos and paedophiles.

The media would f*cking LOVE us to believe it is! It sells papers, it gives Trevor McDonald a living! The world is no more filled with child snatchers than it was when I was a kid (70's). I ran around with my mates without so much as a mobile phone to tell my parents where I was! (And more often than not, I wasn't where I said I was going...)

Before we get all crazy and start wrapping the kids up in cotton wool in a hermetically sealed locked bubble with CCTV watching their every move, we should perhaps take a reality check. Maddy's situation is unusual. Very very unusual. I am not going to take away my kids freedom to grow and experience because of a one in a million event. Sure, I wouldn't leave a tiny kid like that alone in a strange place but please dont get to the point where you never give your kids room to be kids.

There is enough media generated fear in the world without us all keeping our kids indoors 24/7 because of some hypothetical bogeyman.

A very sad situation and I cant begin to feel what Maddy's parents must be going through. Now isn't the time for blame and revenge. Believe me, they wont be able to live with themselves if their kiddy doesn't come home. I know I couldn't. That for me would be more punishment than I could bear.

Anyway, goodnight all. There's no need for us to hate each other is there? We all want her to be found safe and well.

[MattF]

The world isn't full of freaks, perverts, weirdos, psychos and paedophiles.

That bit I agree with. The possibilities as to her disappearance are multiple, with that being but merely one.

Before we get all crazy and start wrapping the kids up in cotton wool in a hermetically sealed locked bubble with CCTV watching their every move, we should perhaps take a reality check. Maddy's situation is unusual. Very very unusual. I am not going to take away my kids freedom to grow and experience because of a one in a million event. Sure, I wouldn't leave a tiny kid like that alone in a strange place but please dont get to the point where you never give your kids room to be kids.

Wrapping them in cotton wool and taking away their liberties are vastly different scenarios to showing the most basic of paternal responsibilities. A child never asks to be brought into this world. They should be able to rely on their parents not to act like childless, single people when it happens, however.

A very sad situation and I cant begin to feel what Maddy's parents must be going through. Now isn't the time for blame and revenge. Believe me, they wont be able to live with themselves if their kiddy doesn't come home. I know I couldn't. That for me would be more punishment than I could bear.

Anyway, goodnight all. There's no need for us to hate each other is there? We all want her to be found safe and well.

You assume with that first paragraph that their thought processes are anything like yours. Obviously not, it would upto just appear.

Btw, with regards to that last bit, who could possibly hate you, you poncy git?

[AuldNick]

Well said Apache.

I have managed to get this Maddie thread sticky on every site I "visit" and the mods do it within 5 mins, posts are always positive offering help, sympathy and friendship to Maddie's parents NEVER EVER the vindictive witch hunt seen here.

Remember this, the "nanny" service offered by most holiday resorts means a spotty youth looks in on your kids every 15-60 mins or whenever they can be arsed, this "service" would not make one iota to Maddie's fate and NO parent can always be there and neither should they need be.

Mibbi we can start again with a new "Madaleine" sticky thread and leave it up to the moderators to get the ball rolling with the Maddie web site and some piccy's, and Matt, this aint about me nor you this as about a missing 4 year old so chill and take another anti neg pill.

Self rightious = YES this nightmare could happen to any parent EVEN YOU and the press will hang you out to dry.

Hang you head in shame = EVERY other important has a Maddie sticky thread, this story needs to be kept alive. Mr Moderator, bin this hate and get a new sticky sorted. Ta XXX