Gahhhh!!!! Local councils!!!

[legendgamesmaster]

Pikeys fly tip anyway, 'the clear your shed/garden/house for £50 quid mate' and it ends up blocking the local byway that evening is legendary, but what is does incourage is average people to fly tip and make the countryside look even scummier.

Some councils in their 'wisdom' are re-introducing the free old car disposal service, instead of charging you £50 and the problem of abandoned cars virtually disappears! Go figure!

Fools.

I've not had any hassle with Linda's truck being sign written at our local dump, but any car that needs a test good test drive normally does it via the local tip with a few barrels of old engine oil just in case

Which I don't feel bad about, as it all get recycled, so no one loses out.

interesting... Pikeys fly tip because they have that mentality. They also (as you rightly point out) take rubbish for a price and dump it for free. No amount of free services encourage the Pikey to use the tip - and thats common knowledge among us Waste workers.

HOWEVER.... abandoned vehicles are an interesting one... When the price of s$$$$ is good (as it is now) the Pikeys find and remove MOST abandoned vehicles before they are ever even reported!!! It aint the council who move them, its the Pikeys - coz they get cash for 'em. When the s$$$$ price is low, you see abandoned vehicles waiting for the local council to remove them because the Pikeys cant get money for them! THAT IS A FACT!!!!

As for commercial vehicles at the tip.... (OK I said I wouldnt, but its late and I cant sleep, so tugh luck - here I go...)

Household Waste Sites are paid for by the council tax payer and are for disposal of household waste by householders and in most cases the site license forbids taking commercial waste. Business rates do NOT generally include any money toward waste removal / disposal - any business has to factor that into its business costs. Most councils have a Van / Trailer ban or a permit system to stop dodgy traders dumping rubbish for free. OK, its a pain for us with 4x4's but PLEASE understand that the council is NOT out to get your cash, its trying to meet targets IMPOSED by government, trying to lower costs to the council tax payer (me and you, unless you are a pikey)

Look at it this way:

you get 3 quotes for some landscape work and one is 500 quid less than the others, so you take it. If that landscaper takes his waste to a HWS / CA site and chucks it away for free, then thats how he can undercut the others. You saved £500 because he dumped it for free when his rivals pay to have waste disposed of legitimately. Who ACTUALLY pays? the tax payer, ME and you, and waste DISPOSAL costs lots of money (as per apaches tale of £38 a tonne - though it can be MUCH higher especially for recycling, upwards of £100 a tonne and NO the council do NOT make money on it).

So anyway, if this landscaper is getting rid of say 100 tonnes a year, thats £3800 paid by the tax payer. Say 10 landscapers do that, £38,000 p/a. say 10 builders do it too, £76,000... and some plumbers... and so it goes on. Pretty soon you realise that a lot of money is being spent on commercial waste disposal.

Any other questions my good fellows?

[sledge]

cut through town... there's a big building, (across from the station) i think might be the town hall... always a few walking around there and the big shopping centre!!

theres lots of nice skirt in the west quay centre, worth a vist

[Apache]

interesting... Pikeys fly tip because they have that mentality. They also (as you rightly point out) take rubbish for a price and dump it for free. No amount of free services encourage the Pikey to use the tip - and thats common knowledge among us Waste workers.

HOWEVER.... abandoned vehicles are an interesting one... When the price of s$$$$ is good (as it is now) the Pikeys find and remove MOST abandoned vehicles before they are ever even reported!!! It aint the council who move them, its the Pikeys - coz they get cash for 'em. When the s$$$$ price is low, you see abandoned vehicles waiting for the local council to remove them because the Pikeys cant get money for them! THAT IS A FACT!!!!

As for commercial vehicles at the tip.... (OK I said I wouldnt, but its late and I cant sleep, so tugh luck - here I go...)

Household Waste Sites are paid for by the council tax payer and are for disposal of household waste by householders and in most cases the site license forbids taking commercial waste. Business rates do NOT generally include any money toward waste removal / disposal - any business has to factor that into its business costs. Most councils have a Van / Trailer ban or a permit system to stop dodgy traders dumping rubbish for free. OK, its a pain for us with 4x4's but PLEASE understand that the council is NOT out to get your cash, its trying to meet targets IMPOSED by government, trying to lower costs to the council tax payer (me and you, unless you are a pikey)

Look at it this way:

you get 3 quotes for some landscape work and one is 500 quid less than the others, so you take it. If that landscaper takes his waste to a HWS / CA site and chucks it away for free, then thats how he can undercut the others. You saved £500 because he dumped it for free when his rivals pay to have waste disposed of legitimately. Who ACTUALLY pays? the tax payer, ME and you, and waste DISPOSAL costs lots of money (as per apaches tale of £38 a tonne - though it can be MUCH higher especially for recycling, upwards of £100 a tonne and NO the council do NOT make money on it).

So anyway, if this landscaper is getting rid of say 100 tonnes a year, thats £3800 paid by the tax payer. Say 10 landscapers do that, £38,000 p/a. say 10 builders do it too, £76,000... and some plumbers... and so it goes on. Pretty soon you realise that a lot of money is being spent on commercial waste disposal.

Any other questions my good fellows?

I refer the orrible gentleman to post no.32. I still reckon common sense is missing from the equation (but that stands for pretty much any council related item). I can sleep, however, and will now go and do some of that.

When's the baby coming along?

[Sancho]

Household Waste Sites are paid for by the council tax payer and are for disposal of household waste by householders and in most cases the site license forbids taking commercial waste. Business rates do NOT generally include any money toward waste removal / disposal - any business has to factor that into its business costs. Most councils have a Van / Trailer ban or a permit system to stop dodgy traders dumping rubbish for free. OK, its a pain for us with 4x4's but PLEASE understand that the council is NOT out to get your cash, its trying to meet targets IMPOSED by government, trying to lower costs to the council tax payer (me and you, unless you are a pikey)

Any other questions my good fellows?

I got a question. Businesses have to pay to have their waste taken away and its because of this (partly) that they don't do it. Household waste is free to have taken away. Of course it's not free, it's hidden in the council tax, so why not hide commercial waste in the business rates (I know they are calculated differently, just add it on) and you get rid of the disparity and the incentive to dump illegally, because they already paid for it to be taken away. Just licence the tip for commercial waste. You are the council after all.

And (not a question really) the Council IS after our money. I understand about the targets etc etc but, because of those targets, councils are trying to rob us, provide nothing and trick the government all at the same time.

My favourites are the time targets they have to complete tasks in. If they miss the target date, it becomes -1 on their score. It can never be -2, so completing the task then becomes irrelevant and they move on to someone else.

Councils can never work because they're run by curtain twitchers, egos and local corrupt businessmen. Not having a go at you Andy. Most officers seem to try to do a good job. It's the members and their personal agendas, combined with stupid government targets, that should be shot.

[legendgamesmaster]

I refer the orrible gentleman to post no.32. I still reckon common sense is missing from the equation (but that stands for pretty much any council related item). I can sleep, however, and will now go and do some of that.

When's the baby coming along?

Baby overdue by 3 days, but all is well with Heather, so they are happy to let it continue au-natural - thanks for asking.

WRONG(ish). we dont lack common sense. we DO lack joined-up-thinking (well, thats the term I think is used). e.g. as you say, commercial waste wont be recycled, yet household will. Why not put a system in place to offer recycling of commercial waste???? because it isnt LAW and the council have no statutory requirement and it costs money.

or... for our Warwikshire friends (around the Studley area) who use the Worcestershire 'tip' that is 1 mile away now find they are not permited and must go to Stratford, a 20 mile trip (or maybe more) because they dont pay Worcestershire Council Tax so cant use Worcestershire sites. The obvios thing is to allow them to use the closer tip. BUT the council have targets to meet (reduce waste is the big driver, recycling comes 2nd to that) so please dont bring us your out-of-county waste! We DID ask Warwickshire to come to an arangement with us about it - we would estimate the waste from Warwickshire and charge it back to them. Unsurprisingly they didnt want to know. Now however there has been press coverage, it LOOKS STUPID (and it is lets be honest) so they have now agreed to come to an arrangement with us, so Studley residents will soon be able to use the 'wrong' tip again. Hooray for some common sense!


NOTE: these comments are mine and not necessarily the official line from Worcestershire County Council. I talk for myself, not for them, in a personal capacity.

[legendgamesmaster]

I got a question. Businesses have to pay to have their waste taken away and its because of this (partly) that they don't do it. Household waste is free to have taken away. Of course it's not free, it's hidden in the council tax, so why not hide commercial waste in the business rates (I know they are calculated differently, just add it on) and you get rid of the disparity and the incentive to dump illegally, because they already paid for it to be taken away. Just licence the tip for commercial waste. You are the council after all.

And (not a question really) the Council IS after our money. I understand about the targets etc etc but, because of those targets, councils are trying to rob us, provide nothing and trick the government all at the same time.

My favourites are the time targets they have to complete tasks in. If they miss the target date, it becomes -1 on their score. It can never be -2, so completing the task then becomes irrelevant and they move on to someone else.

Councils can never work because they're run by curtain twitchers, egos and local corrupt businessmen. Not having a go at you Andy. Most officers seem to try to do a good job. It's the members and their personal agendas, combined with stupid government targets, that should be shot.

Yes, you are right, the council tax covers household waste collection and disposal, it is not free, as you point out.

The government decided that business rates dont cover waste, and the legal / statutory requirements of councils are set centrally and by the Environmental Protection and the Waste Acts. and they are bl**dy complicated! I dont know if you can change what business rates pay for, it might be possible. As for changing the site lisences, we cant license ourselves - site licenses are given by the Environment Agency and are part of planning conditions.

Dunno about the targets you are talking about - sounds like an urban myth to me. Our main target is to reduce the amount of biodegradeable waste to landfill. If we miss the target, we get fined £150 PER TONNE on top of disposal costs (about £60 per tonne already) for every tonne over our target. Or we buy allowances from other councils to cover the shortfall. But the price will be close to £150 if the demand outweighs the availability anyway.

Rob us... Get Cash.. Trick the Government... sounds like a plan!! Get Rich, retire to Venezuala, live a long and happy life. ah, yes!

CORRECT - councils are run by people who really shouldnt be allowed to run them. us officers do try. Some of us are complete Tw*ts, and really are 'jobsworths' who make life a bl**dy misery for the decent council workers. they are the ones who give us all a bad image. Having said that, you get to see why. you get jaded and run down quickly. Descisions take for ever because they have to go to comittee after comittee before aproval, and theres always some old duffer who wants things changed because, well just because he can.

I would leave tomorrow. but I have a young un on the way, so i need the steady readies. plus the wife would kill me! Legendgames doesnt make enough to live off, just enough to service the Surf!!!

ooh, i feel like its time for bed... Rant Over. See yas later all.

[Chillitt]

It doesn't matter a jot what it costs the council (us tax payers) to deal with that pile of rubbish that the metaphorical landscaper wants rid of. It will cost a damn site more if he fly tips it and the council has to go fetch it and STILL has to deal with the waste!!!! Do the council sit there, reflecting in the glory of a job well done when they turn a van away thats full of $$$$, think the blokes going to troll off to spend a flippin fortune paying someone to take his rubbish off him? He doesn't understand the intergrated waste management regime that has been dreamt up by a commitee of people who have never even got their hands dirty, he just wants the smelly stuff out of his van! and chances are he will chuck it in the verge down my lane like every begger else seems to round here!!!!
If all these county councils are doing their best to serve their customers and deal with the waste disposal in an efficient and enviromental way, why is every county doing it differently????
(all council employees and policies mentioned here are fictitious, and any resemblance to any real employees or policies is purely coincidental)

[legendgamesmaster]

It will cost a damn site more if he fly tips it and the council has to go fetch it and STILL has to deal with the waste!!!!

Interesting point: Fly Tipped waste is NOT included in all targets for waste!* The more that is fly tipped, the less waste is included in the targets!!! YEAH! We meet targets!!!!!!

It does cost a $$$$$$ fortune to clear fly tipped waste, and its a real problem for people like you who live in rural places. Its a stupid system. It really is. Interestingly (though it wont placate you if you get flytipped rubbish in your lane) our surveys and those of other bodies (plus our data ovet the last 10 years) shows little change in fly tipping when major changes in waste collection / treatment / facilities occur. i.e. fly tipping is not significantly influenced by changes to waste services.

tis true.

*the recycling, composting and landfill plus waste kg/head of population do NOT include fly tipped waste.

[nero279]

My opinion for what it's worth, take it or leave it.

As far as the councils are a bunch of tw4ts goes, it's like any job/people group there are good ones and bad ones. The problem in council is that as far as i can tell, it's very much behind the scenes where the good ones are doing their work and the effort they put in doing the best they can, in this example, trying to keep council tax / waste disposal charges down. Taxes are going up, fact, in almost every area, not because local government are trying to make huge profits but because their costs are going up, and central government funding isn't keeping up.

I agree with commercial waste being charged, at the end of the day if councils can encourage commercial operations to reduce their waste that's got to be a good thing. The problem is that the fly tippers and rogue traders need clamping down on, and putting out of business. If this happened the genuine traders with the proper qualifications, affiliations, and whatever else would not have a problem with being undercut pricewise by people taking shortcuts, and could pass on the disposal costs to the customer, probably without it even being noticed or questioned.

The problem is the implementation of the restrictions, if the council said okay commercial waste can use the Househould Waste Site, the sites would need to be enlarged massively, there would be delays, problems and accidents on the sites, and infrequent household users would quite possibly end up not being happy to go there, hence the household waste ends up flytipped. So that's a no go.
Try and draw the line in the middle, the regulations get flouted.
So, put a complete ban on commercial waste at these household recycling sites, and enforce it to the best of your ability. It may seem over the top, and this isn't a dig apache, but if there's a total ban on commercial waste and as a tip worker you see a van with Vixen Footwear on the side and emptying shoe boxes what do you do?
Maybe unreasonable, maybe not, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and it's always going to be a grey area, occasionally my household waste could be challenged, but likewise some commercial waste could be mistaken for household.

The bottom line is that wherever there are restrictions, people try to flout them and as a result decisions have to be made. Sometimes the decisions are right, sometimes they're wrong but the people making the decisions have to do it on face value and judge by what they see.

:off to bed now:

[legendgamesmaster]

My opinion for what it's worth, take it or leave it.

As far as the councils are a bunch of tw4ts goes, it's like any job/people group there are good ones and bad ones. The problem in council is that as far as i can tell, it's very much behind the scenes where the good ones are doing their work and the effort they put in doing the best they can, in this example, trying to keep council tax / waste disposal charges down. Taxes are going up, fact, in almost every area, not because local government are trying to make huge profits but because their costs are going up, and central government funding isn't keeping up.

I agree with commercial waste being charged, at the end of the day if councils can encourage commercial operations to reduce their waste that's got to be a good thing. The problem is that the fly tippers and rogue traders need clamping down on, and putting out of business. If this happened the genuine traders with the proper qualifications, affiliations, and whatever else would not have a problem with being undercut pricewise by people taking shortcuts, and could pass on the disposal costs to the customer, probably without it even being noticed or questioned.

The problem is the implementation of the restrictions, if the council said okay commercial waste can use the Househould Waste Site, the sites would need to be enlarged massively, there would be delays, problems and accidents on the sites, and infrequent household users would quite possibly end up not being happy to go there, hence the household waste ends up flytipped. So that's a no go.
Try and draw the line in the middle, the regulations get flouted.
So, put a complete ban on commercial waste at these household recycling sites, and enforce it to the best of your ability. It may seem over the top, and this isn't a dig apache, but if there's a total ban on commercial waste and as a tip worker you see a van with Vixen Footwear on the side and emptying shoe boxes what do you do?
Maybe unreasonable, maybe not, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and it's always going to be a grey area, occasionally my household waste could be challenged, but likewise some commercial waste could be mistaken for household.

The bottom line is that wherever there are restrictions, people try to flout them and as a result decisions have to be made. Sometimes the decisions are right, sometimes they're wrong but the people making the decisions have to do it on face value and judge by what they see.

:off to bed now:

I will agree with pretty much all that you say! including the off to bed bit. er not with you though.