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  • Moan moan moan.

    Okay, I know I'll probably get some serious flameing over this, but here goes!

    I'm getting seriously fed up with the number of posts on this site complaining about some fairly important issues such as immigration &, more critical from our point of view, proposed carbon taxes & how they might apply to personal choices whether it's driving a Surf or taking a budget flight. I'm not going to bang on about immigration or the war in Iraq as everyone has different views & we are all entitled to our own opinions. I do, however, have very strong opnions on the often discussed subject of tax on alternative fuels. On a recent thread (Roll up, roll up), I commented on the influence the Ramblers Association have & suggested that we might take some lessons from them. I wonder how many members of this site would be interested in actually trying to put pressure on our glorious leaders & attempting to influence policy. Are there people out there willing to put their money where there mouth is & expend a bit of time & effort in trying raise public awareness or are we just happy to write messages & complain. If I were to write an open letter complaining about tax on green fuels, how many would make the effort to print it off, look up the name & address of their local MP & post copies to them along with copies to David Milliband & Douglas Alexander? How many would be willing to post copies to similar interest groups (Shogun/Pajero, Landies etc.). Alternativly, how many would sit on their backsides & just continue to moan? How many of us would be willing to give up the time to go to our local MP's surgery (they hold them regularly, you know) & meet them face to face & ask the question & keep going back 'till you get a reasonable answer & not be happy with a fob-off?

    There must be a reasonable number of members on this site with the ability to pick up pen & paper & write to your local newspaper. Let's face it, the issue is in the news, any letter on the subject provided it's reasonably written will probably get published.

    We all have the right & the ability to make our opinions known, the anti 4x4 brigade have been doing it for ages, surely we can at least attempt to fight back. We DO have a sound environmental argument but we are not scoring the points that we should. The bottom line is that if we don't want to become victims, we need to fight back & need to do it now.

    I could probably go on for a long time on this, but I guess I'm probably saying that I invite opinions, or, more bluntly, put up or shut up!
    Last edited by Mike Fraser; 1 November 2006, 12:19.

  • #2
    i would
    SWIFT AND BOLD

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mike Fraser
      Okay, I know I'll probably get some serious flameing over this, but here goes!

      I'm getting seriously fed up with the number of posts on this site complaining about some fairly important issues such as immigration &, more critical from our point of view, proposed carbon taxes & how they might apply to personal choices whether it's driving a Surf or taking a budget flight. I'm not going to bang on about immigration or the war in Iraq as everyone has different views & we are all entitled to our own opinions. I do, however, have very strong opnions on the often discussed subject of tax on alternative fuels. On a recent thread (Roll up, roll up), I commented on the influence the Ramblers Association have & suggested that we might take some lessons from them. I wonder how many members of this site would be interested in actually trying to put pressure on our glorious leaders & attempting to influence policy. Are there people out there willing to put their money where there mouth is & expend a bit of time & effort in trying raise public awareness or are we just happy to write messages & complain. If I were to write an open letter complaining about tax on green fuels, how many would make the effort to print it off, look up the name & address of their local MP & post copies to them along with copies to David Milliband & Douglas Alexander? How many would be willing to post copies to similar interest groups (Shogun/Pajero, Landies etc.). Alternativly, how many would sit on their backsides & just continue to moan? How many of us would be willing to give up the time to go to our local MP's surgery (they hold them regularly, you know) & meet them face to face & ask the question & keep going back 'till you get a reasonable answer & not be happy with a fob-off?

      There must be a reasonable number of members on this site with the ability to pick up pen & paper & write to your local newspaper. Let's face it, the issue is in the news, any letter on the subject provided it's reasonably written will probably get published.

      We all have the right & the ability to make our opinions known, the anti 4x4 brigade have been doing it for ages, surely we can at least attempt to fight back. We DO have a sound environmental argument but we are not scoring the points that we should. The bottom line is that if we don't want to become victims, we need to fight back & need to do it now.

      I could probably go on for a long time on this, but I guess I'm probably saying that I invite opinions, or, more bluntly, put up or shut up!
      Well put Mike, I feel a Poll coming on !!!!
      I would set up a poll, as i don't know how, I'll leave it to those than can !!!!
      In Favour or Not............. ya can Count me in

      There's always a Payback.... Hope they can't see this one comin !!!!
      Last edited by Diezel Weazel; 1 November 2006, 12:30.
      Buncefield Burner

      Comment


      • #4
        Go for it Mike. Sort out a letter and I'll be happy to send it to my two local MP's (I live on a border)

        Will you post it on here first or just PM it to interested parties?
        Cutting steps in the roof of the world

        Comment


        • #5
          If I knew how to arrange a poll, I would. Happy to invite someone with the nouse to do it!

          However, & with all due respect, it will take more than a poll. Certainly, it will gauge interest. I'm happy to write a general letter on the subject & put it up for approval/comments. It would depend on whether anyone else would be willing to commit do something with it.

          I must stress, I'm not trying to hijack this subject or putting myself up a some sort of activist, I'm just an ordinary guy fed up of hearing people complain but not bothering to do anything about it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike Fraser
            If I knew how to arrange a poll, I would. Happy to invite someone with the nouse to do it!

            However, & with all due respect, it will take more than a poll. Certainly, it will gauge interest. I'm happy to write a general letter on the subject & put it up for approval/comments. It would depend on whether anyone else would be willing to commit do something with it.

            I must stress, I'm not trying to hijack this subject or putting myself up a some sort of activist, I'm just an ordinary guy fed up of hearing people complain but not bothering to do anything about it.
            No, you're dead right Mike. We cant expect to change anything if no-one knows we are brassed off. I'll draft something for my local rag and post it up on here for modification / use by others. Post your letter up for a bit of positive critique on here and we'll start shaking the tree a bit.
            Cutting steps in the roof of the world

            Comment


            • #7
              i am more than willing to pass on a letter to my local M.P who is a friend of the family and see what she has to say about it all and to the papers aswell.Count me in
              https://www.facebook.com/groups/henpals/

              Comment


              • #8
                Count us in.
                4x4toys.co.uk - Keeping you on and off the road...

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've no problem with anyone taking the lead on this and I'll quite happily do mailings or anything else that I can, thanks for making the effert.

                  Tony
                  www.puppywalker.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, I've just spoken to HMRC to make sure I've got the current information with regard to duty on Bio-fuels, SVO & WVO (or used cooking oil, as they call it). If anyone is interested, look up publications 179 E & F. The ever helpful man was actually sympathetic & understood the logic of the argument but his final words were very telling, he said 'write to your MP'.

                    I'm certainly happy to draft a letter & I'll do so once I've had a chance to check the facts. I'm happy to confess I'm not an expert, just someone who's very angry about being singled out as the bad guy when I'd actually be more than willing to do something positive about the environment. If I'm willing to do so, why shouldn't there be a financial advantage instead of a penalty!

                    Give me a couple of days & I'll post something up but, for those who are seriously interested, please keep bumping this thread up so it gets as much exposure as possible.

                    Thanks for the interest so far.

                    Comment


                    • #11


                      Count me in !

                      Life is too important to take seriously !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If theres a basic format letter that i could copy i'd send it to my MP
                        www.daemon4x4.org

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If all 8000+ members on here posted an actual letter that we could print off, it would be harder to ignore than a deleteable Email.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BUSHWHACKER
                            If all 8000+ members on here posted an actual letter that we could print off, it would be harder to ignore than a deleteable Email.
                            Absolutely. Looks like a plan forming. We need one for our local papers too. I'll have a bash at that if you like. We are pretty spread out geographically so could probably get good coverage.

                            Some facts about the tax levels on the vaious types of veg / bio would be useful if anyone has them.
                            Cutting steps in the roof of the world

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mike Fraser
                              I'm certainly happy to draft a letter & I'll do so once I've had a chance to check the facts. I'm happy to confess I'm not an expert, just someone who's very angry about being singled out as the bad guy when I'd actually be more than willing to do something positive about the environment. If I'm willing to do so, why shouldn't there be a financial advantage instead of a penalty!

                              Give me a couple of days & I'll post something up but, for those who are seriously interested, please keep bumping this thread up so it gets as much exposure as possible.
                              Count me in. Talk the hind leg of a donkey I may, but I ain't hypocritical.
                              One thing I might mention, if I may? One thing that needs avoiding is doing
                              the rather common biodiesel versus SVO debate in anything submitted.
                              Listing the facts regarding both and pushing both of them the same would
                              be the preferable option. The one thing I have noticed in the past is that
                              whomever has tried to heighten awareness and push the tax/duty argument
                              forward has always turned it into a 'mine's better than yours' type affair,
                              which serves no useful purpose, but does have a harmful effect on any
                              supposedly serious discussion. List all alternative/biofuels with the same
                              regard.

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