Moan moan moan.

[Mike Fraser]

Thanks for all the positive comments but please keep passing the message on to anyone you feel might be interested enough to do the same. I'd be very interested to hear the comments you get back (if, indeed, you actually get one!) If you do get the usual fob-off, send it & a copy of the original letter to your local rag & push them to publish it. If someone could forward me email contacts for all the 4x4 & off-road mags, I can try sending them a copy of the letter in the hope they might publish it & request their readership to copy & send off, got to be worth a try!

[drunkmonkeyboy]

Just read the thread, downloaded the letter and will send a copie to my local mp in cornwall, Colin Breed, he seems like a nice bloke and will try to get one to the local mp in plymouth where i also spend a lot of time. No good at writing letters myslef but get just as pi*ssed as you Mike at the situation so more than willing to kick some fat cat a*ss to get some changes!!

[Mike Fraser]

Can I ask if anyone on here is also a member of the Mitsubishi Pajreo Owners Club? I've just visited their site & noticed they have Bio-Veg-Alt fuel forum on the technical section. Anyone able to create a link to this thread or to push the letter to them? If necessary, I'll join just to try & get the message over but if someone is already a member & is prepared to do it, so much the better.

[stormforce]

Can I ask if anyone on here is also a member of the Mitsubishi Pajreo Owners Club? I've just visited their site & noticed they have Bio-Veg-Alt fuel forum on the technical section. Anyone able to create a link to this thread or to push the letter to them? If necessary, I'll join just to try & get the message over but if someone is already a member & is prepared to do it, so much the better.

you will have to gain permission from their admin in order to place the link or copy of the letter Mike.I put a link up last year for a charity event one of our members was trying to sort out and i had them pming me and then on the phone saying about stuff like that you need to ask permission 1st.
I was a member at the time but no more

[Robbers Dog]

Great minds......

I just found this thread having today sent an e-mail to David Miliband along similar lines.
I await his reply and will post it if I ever get one.

[Robbers Dog]

Here's what I sent

Hi All
This is what I sent today for your reference (hopefully not too much of a rant)
"Dear Sir

I run a 4X4 on bio diesel. The vehicle is nearly carbon neutral (I mix a small amount of ordinary diesel in the tank when it is cold) and yet I am seen as a ludite by ignorant people running any other type of vehicle on petrol or diesel non biofuels who think efficient carbon emissions are better than none

Surely your largest challenge in reducing the environmental impact of transport is dealing with complaicancy and ignorance in both supply and demand.

Why are fuel suppliers still allowed to supply non bio-fuels (they didn't take the lead out until they were told to)

Why are car manufacturers allowed to threaten the removal of warranty rights if biofuels are used when it is their lack of research and development that prevents them from being certain that their vehicles will perform reliably when carbon neutral (even though the first diesel was designed to run on peanut oil)

Why are consumers not aware of carbon neutral alternatives and actively encouraged to use them by means of duty waivers/reductions.

At the moment, people would prefer to see an electric car on the street powered by charge from a anachronistic coal burning power station, distributed through a network that losses what, 20% of the input energy, than a 4X4 that has no carbon impact on the environment. Not only that, it is actively encouraged with congestion charging waivers and duty refunds on purchase. I wont even start on the pollution and energy consumption involved in production and dispoasl of batteries......

When are we going to actually start thinking about the whole picture rather than taking a stab at the first thing that pops into our minds. Please do some joined up thinking for us and let me know your thoughts.

Yours

Rob Farey

Davids e-mail address for those that want it is david.miliband@defra.gsi.gov.u k

[MattF]

you will have to gain permission from their admin in order to place the link or copy of the letter Mike.I put a link up last year for a charity event one of our members was trying to sort out and i had them pming me and then on the phone saying about stuff like that you need to ask permission 1st.
I was a member at the time but no more

Thank god us lot ain't like that. That's pure pettiness.

[Mike Fraser]

Well put, Rob. I'd encourage anyone who would care to do so to copy this & mail it to both David Milliband & your local MP. On a personal note, I prefer to write a letter but I realise that this doesn't apply to everyone. If you can make the effort to send a registered letter, they are almost oblidged to reply.

I'm really glad to see the level of response but in relation to the number of views, we've had reletivly few people who are commiting to sending out a letter. If you view & agree with the argument, please let other members know of your intent. If we build momentum, others will join in.

[mayto]

Hi Mike, you have put together an excellent letter, but the rates of duty you mention seem a bit unclear to me, are the rates of duty you mention 47.1pence p/L its just that £0.471p/L is confusing to a simple mind like mine, what does it mean, to me it means 471pence p/L or £4.71pence p/L I am not criticising you letter I could not have written a better one, I am just confused about that single point. Cheers mayto

[stormforce]

Thank god us lot ain't like that. That's pure pettiness.

that's what i thought at the time.They told me that they have their own charity which they raise money for and that if we wanted to we could do the event between the 2 sites which wasn't an option so i said to forget it

[MattF]

Mike. just had a read of the letter. One point. The duty on Biodiesel is at the
lower rate, is it not? Only mineral diesel and SVO are at the higher rate, or
has it changed again?

[MattF]

that's what i thought at the time.They told me that they have their own charity which they raise money for and that if we wanted to we could do the event between the 2 sites which wasn't an option so i said to forget it

Can't say as I blame you. I'd have said the same. Even if one has a preferred
choice of charity, it's not asking much to let soemone promote another event,
provided it's for a worthwhile cause. They really do appear to have a skewed
logic.

[Mike Fraser]

Matt, you could well be right. I'm basing the information on my chat with HMRC today. To be honest, the guy I spoke to didn't inspire me with confidence. That's one of the reasons I posted it on here to get grey areas like this sorted out before it gets sent out. I've found, through another group I'm a member of, that dealing with any govenment agency can produce as many answers to the same question as people you ask. It really depends on who you speak to. I'm quite happy to have the letter ammended to what people better placed than myself feel is the correct position &. by the way Mayto, you are quite correct, the rates ARE 47.1p/L & 27.1p/L. If you feel the way I stated it is confusing, please feel free to change. I think the fact that even government employees are unsure of the whole policy concerning alternative fuels goes to show how poorly managed the situation is.

[Diezel Weazel]

I may have forgot to mention it Mike but I'll pass em both to my local MP & MEP............

There's always a Payback.... You just can't see it Comin !!!!

[Mike Fraser]

Thanks Surferjess.

Can anyone clarify Matt's view on duty on Bio? If I've got it wrong, I'll gladly ammend & re-post the letter.