any good offroad?

[BUSHWHACKER]

hello, i've just been offered a 2.4td surf and i want to use it for serious off-roading, can anyone tell me if they are anygood for this? cheers, huey

No.

[openback]

Got ARB? Who needs all the wheels on the floor.

Without a locker the Surfs only let down offroad is the IFS, throw a solid pickup axle under the front and it'll work fine.

Tony, you done any solid axel swaps? interested for the future, LA supertrux have said to look in the region of £1400.

also tried to pm you about rear prop centre bearing, but you were full again!
can you remove them without a hydraulic press, using brute force if you dont want to reuse it?
shaun

[TonyN]

Hi mate, I'm doing a SAS on my 89' Surf ATM, once I've done mine and ironed out the snags then I'll be in a position to offer it as a service and price.

Looking at the pics it looks like the flange is the tight part, any hub or 2/3 leg puller should get it off, or dilligent hammering and the bearing slides off after.

Not done a two peice rear shaft yet, so can't say for sure. Dosn't look any trouble though.

[openback]

Hi mate, I'm doing a SAS on my 89' Surf ATM, once I've done mine and ironed out the snags then I'll be in a position to offer it as a service and price.

Looking at the pics it looks like the flange is the tight part, any hub or 2/3 leg puller should get it off, or dilligent hammering and the bearing slides off after.

Not done a two peice rear shaft yet, so can't say for sure. Dosn't look any trouble though.

cheers Tony, pretty much what i thought, out with the FBH and if that fails there's allways the angle grinder

regarding the SAS where are you sourcing the parts? i take it you've seen the allpro site?

http://allprooffroad.com/index.php?o...ask=view&id=42

only problem i can see with it is the issues with lhd/rhd differences, be very inerested in your progress, good luck!
shaun
ps whats this about "bored with pickups!!!!!!!!!"

[TJG]

i know cones are cool for articulation but its no good if theres no weight on them for getting the power down is it?

They will have weight on them, all the unsprung weight for starters so 1/2 an axle, wheel tyre etc. But that isn't really the point the fact that the wheel goes down into a hole stops the diagonal one cocking up into the air and getting you all crossaxled. Lockers are all well and good but they dont make it all as elegant do they, powering away sticking wheels in the air and coming back to earth with a crash, busting bits of transmission on the way. If you can keep the wheel on the ground it always get some traction and hleps to close the diff a bit to maintain traction on the other wheels.

Check out these guys, all Landy stuff but some serious articulation, I want to treat my cart sprung landy to some of their goodies when I can justify the money to 'er indoors.

[TJG]

DOH, I ment check out these guys....http://www.gon2far.co.uk/

[TonyN]

Lockers are all well and good but they dont make it all as elegant do they, powering away sticking wheels in the air and coming back to earth with a crash, busting bits of transmission on the way. If you can keep the wheel on the ground it always get some traction and hleps to close the diff a bit to maintain traction on the other wheels.

hehe, Mate, I don't mean keep picking on you, but that statement is utter gibberish, or you've not driven a locked 4x4 before. Reliable solid traction is the smoothest way to drive, there is not ANY need to 'power away' and 'crashing to the ground' when you've get traction to all the wheels, you just glide in and out of big holes and if you crossaxle it just keeps going as smooth as before.

Its not B/S, I've driven on the Rubicon in a locked CJ and a Bronco and it just doesn't work how you are saying unless the driver is just a throttle jockey, which is just poor driving basically.

Now don't get me wrong, out of the box a Defender 90 is hard to beat, but don't fall into the trap of think just becuase LR doesn't fit lockers you don't need them. They are just saving money and know that their halfshafts could'nt take 100% of the engine power if it lifted one wheel and you gassed it without breaking.

Non of my offroaders I've built have had lockers, just plenty of flex, the old pickup had 3/4 elipical rears, and long rear springs up the front and flexed beautifully, and along with the 35" Boggers was good enough for 99% of the wheeling in the UK. I've always said you don't really lockers for most of the offroading in the UK if the truck is built right.

But there is ABSOLUTLY NO WAY you can ever think not having a manual locker is an advantage offroad over a open diff, ever!

Thanks for listening, and good day..

[laser_jock@work]

Been there done that!

Far nicer to SAS a Surf IMHO. Bored with pickups after all these years.

Yes I seen your V8 pickup a couple of times- but have you actually fitted a solid (pickup) axle to MK2 Surf yet? That's a mod that would be of interest to me.....

[TonyN]

Yes I seen your V8 pickup a couple of times- but have you actually fitted a solid (pickup) axle to MK2 Surf yet? That's a mod that would be of interest to me.....

see post 18 in this thread....

[TJG]

hehe, Mate, I don't mean keep picking on you, but that statement is utter gibberish, or you've not driven a locked 4x4 before. Reliable solid traction is the smoothest way to drive, there is not ANY need to 'power away' and 'crashing to the ground' when you've get traction to all the wheels, you just glide in and out of big holes and if you crossaxle it just keeps going as smooth as before.

Its not B/S, I've driven on the Rubicon in a locked CJ and a Bronco and it just doesn't work how you are saying unless the driver is just a throttle jockey, which is just poor driving basically.

Now don't get me wrong, out of the box a Defender 90 is hard to beat, but don't fall into the trap of think just becuase LR doesn't fit lockers you don't need them. They are just saving money and know that their halfshafts could'nt take 100% of the engine power if it lifted one wheel and you gassed it without breaking.

Non of my offroaders I've built have had lockers, just plenty of flex, the old pickup had 3/4 elipical rears, and long rear springs up the front and flexed beautifully, and along with the 35" Boggers was good enough for 99% of the wheeling in the UK. I've always said you don't really lockers for most of the offroading in the UK if the truck is built right.

But there is ABSOLUTLY NO WAY you can ever think not having a manual locker is an advantage offroad over a open diff, ever!

Thanks for listening, and good day..

Don't you worry about picking on me at all, I'm a big lad! Anyway it makes more interesting reading having a debate with differing views than reading endless post saying "Yeah".

Right, back to the point in question, let me lay down some more gibberish. I am not in any way saying that having a locker is in anyway a disadvantage. Given the choice I would always go for massive articulation and a locker, but life ain't always like that is it? What I'm trying to put across in the words of Scottie "ye canna change the laws of physics". I'm sure you are right that using a locker it is possible to use gentle power to glide in and out of big holes, but it is inevitable that when one corner drops into a hole that is deeper than the articulation can cope with then something has to happen, it either dangles or it drops into the hole and the opposing wheel lifts, the drive carries on quite possibly pushing the wheel further up into the air, until the point of balance is reached whereupon it comes back down to Mother earth and if you are a bit to heavy on the throttle with a bit of a bang, causing massive shocks down the drivetrain.

Now I'm sure you are some sort of driving god who would never allow that to happen, unfortunately there are those amongst us who arn't! Using suspension to traverse the holes I think, and I may well be in a minority of one here, looks composed and elegant, like the vehicle still has more to give. It also negates the need for a locker if you can keep traction at all wheels at all times,which as you so neatly put it is what you want, smooth reliable traction.

Moving on to the defender, I agree it probably is the best "out of the box" What I was trying to do was to answer the question "is a Surf a good cheap off roader?" My view is that the Land Rover is far better catered for by the goodie people. I'm sure the Surf is just as capable but the bits and pieces just arn't out there. It's not right and it's not fair but that is the truth. My S3 cost me £1200, it has a new galv chassis and runs like a sewing machine. She does oil, water and petrol in roughly equal quants but starts first hit of the button and is tons of cheap fun. When it failed the MOT last year cos a headlight wasn't working it cost £5 for a new britpart one, the door tops were £17 each. This is what I'm saying, for good cheap fun it can't be beat. Horses for courses though, the Surf is a supurb bit of kit, I must have liked it I spent 10 biggies on mine and it does everything I ask of it. And the S3, as much fun as it is much more than 25 miles and I feel like I've been the target in the world @rse kicking championship!