Rear window mystery

[Pete]

I went out to the truck and found the rear window open (I left it closed) and I could hear the relay clicking. This is without the key in the lock, or the switch operating inside the vehicle. The window will not operate at all now. I disconected the power lead to the motor and the relay was still clicking. I've pulled the fuse to stop it, and covered the window till tomorrow. Could the rain have caused a short somewhere, or does it sound like I need a new relay?
Pete

[bensonsnuts]

I went out to the truck and found the rear window open (I left it closed) and I could hear the relay clicking. This is without the key in the lock, or the switch operating inside the vehicle. The window will not operate at all now. I disconected the power lead to the motor and the relay was still clicking. I've pulled the fuse to stop it, and covered the window till tomorrow. Could the rain have caused a short somewhere, or does it sound like I need a new relay?
Pete

Pete, I,ve not heard of that problem before , but it sounds as though you have a constant feed to the "down" relay.
Might not work with this problem but try reversing the wires to the motor
( at least that would be permanently up not down ! )

First thing I,d check would be the switch behind the key on the tailgate

[Pete]

First thing I,d check would be the switch behind the key on the tailgate[/QUOTE]
Thanks Geof. It did cross my mind about the key switch, but the window is stuck down so I couldn't get to it. However I've searched some old threads, (some of yours I think) and picked up some tips, so I should be able to raise the window tomorrow. I'll try switching the wires as you suggest first. Will let you know. Panic takes over when the window wont go up, and it's saturday night, 8pm, dark, rain forecast, on street parking etc. Night out abandoned.
Pete

[bensonsnuts]

First thing I,d check would be the switch behind the key on the tailgate

Thanks Geof. It did cross my mind about the key switch, but the window is stuck down so I couldn't get to it. However I've searched some old threads, (some of yours I think) and picked up some tips, so I should be able to raise the window tomorrow. I'll try switching the wires as you suggest first. Will let you know. Panic takes over when the window wont go up, and it's saturday night, 8pm, dark, rain forecast, on street parking etc. Night out abandoned.
Pete[/QUOTE]

That windows a great feature till it goes wrong ! If it sticks down its a bloody great liability.
Thats why I,ve left that fix on my motor ....just in case

[Pete]

UPDATE
Returned to the car this morning, put the fuse back in, no clicking from the relay. Tried window and it worked!! It must have been something to do with the rear door lock. I sprayed WD40 in the lock last thing sat night, so maybe that did the trick. So far so good. It's just a mystery how the window went down by itself. Last time I used the window I opened it with the key, but closed it with the switch inside. Maybe the contact on the lock stuck. Geof, thanks for your help. I'll keep those number on standby just in case!!!
Pete

[PaulL]

Yesterday morning I had the same problem, except in my case I'd left the wife sitting in the Surf, ignition off, and she reports that the tailgate window mysteriously opened all by itself, in a quick series of juddering steps. (Ghosts were apparently suspected!)

As we were halfway on a trip up to Birmingham, we continued with the tailgate window open for the rest of the day (and now have a damp bootspace!).

Tried a few things when we got home, but neither the interior switch or the key responded, and the relay ticks away for 20 seconds or so every now and then.

I'm hoping this morning that I have the same luck, and that it's maybe just water in the keylock (it was very wet yesterday)... with luck a bit of WD40 and a dry day will see me right!

[pops]

UPDATE
Returned to the car this morning, put the fuse back in, no clicking from the relay. Tried window and it worked!! It must have been something to do with the rear door lock. I sprayed WD40 in the lock last thing sat night, so maybe that did the trick. So far so good. It's just a mystery how the window went down by itself. Last time I used the window I opened it with the key, but closed it with the switch inside. Maybe the contact on the lock stuck. Geof, thanks for your help. I'll keep those number on standby just in case!!!
Pete

must have been the Surf GREMLINS

[Pete]

Yesterday morning I had the same problem, except in my case I'd left the wife sitting in the Surf, ignition off, and she reports that the tailgate window mysteriously opened all by itself, in a quick series of juddering steps. (Ghosts were apparently suspected!)

As we were halfway on a trip up to Birmingham, we continued with the tailgate window open for the rest of the day (and now have a damp bootspace!).

Tried a few things when we got home, but neither the interior switch or the key responded, and the relay ticks away for 20 seconds or so every now and then.

I'm hoping this morning that I have the same luck, and that it's maybe just water in the keylock (it was very wet yesterday)... with luck a bit of WD40 and a dry day will see me right!

Paul, you have the same symptoms I had. Mine has been trouble free ever since. Let us know what happens. It is certainly something for others to watch out for. It's a theives dreams come true if your window opens all by itself revealing all your goodies inside!!!
Pete

[bensonsnuts]

Paul, you have the same symptoms I had. Mine has been trouble free ever since. Let us know what happens. It is certainly something for others to watch out for. It's a theives dreams come true if your window opens all by itself revealing all your goodies inside!!!
Pete

An auto-electrician disabled my rear window lock a long time ago when trying to solve the problems I had but I thought originally the isolator on your door panel would have locked that as well.
Of course if this simply disables the switches in the doors that wouldn't prevent a false signal direct to the relay from dropping the window.
If this turns into a frequent occurence it may be worthwhile running a simple inline switch from the motor in the tailgate to the dash so you can permanently isolate the window motor when not in use ?

[PaulL]

Well, the good news it that over night, the fix-it fairy had visited and all seems to be well again. That said, I do have some worries along the line Pete mentioned - the idea of leaving the Surf all secure in a car park somewhere, only to come back to find the ghosties have once more come a-calling does not fill me with confidence. Not sure that the insurance company would be too chuffed, either.

I'll have to monitor the situation!

[TonyN]

I'd change/check the key switch in the back door, just to be safe. Its only part that works without the ignition on, so it many be getting wet from water running past the weather strip and into the tailgate, and shorting to lower the window, its only held in with a clip, from inside.

If nothing else, take it out and dunk it it WD40.

[PaulL]

Well, it's at it again - the rear window is down and won't go back up - and the relay's clicking away like mad.

Silly question, but which fuse is the relay on? The "tail" seems the obvious option but removing it makes no difference - the relay still clicks happily away.

Added to the problem this time around is that the "back door" indicator on the dash is illuminated permanently (indicating that it "thinks" the tailgate is open or not latched - which it is).

I suspect I have more than one fault - the window switch seems to be related to the keylock as before, whereas the latch indication appears to be unrelated.

When the window is down, it is impossible to access the keylock of course, and I have tried - without success - to follow the advice under this thread http://www.yotasurf.co.uk/Forums/showthread.php?t=2122 in applying 12v direct to the motor.

Any further advice appreciated.... I'm not far off the point of taking it to a garage and saying "fix it" and damn the expense!!!

[JimL]

Added to the problem this time around is that the "back door" indicator on the dash is illuminated permanently (indicating that it "thinks" the tailgate is open or not latched - which it is).

As long as this is the case, your window cannot be raised. The way to fool the system when the door is down is to manually close the door latches on each side and then you can operate your window but whats wrong with yours cant be too hard to right?

the rear window is down and won't go back up - and the relay's clicking away like mad.

When you've fixed the 'back door' sensor problem, what you could do is get your relay box out from behind the panel and swop somebody elses in just so that you can put up your window. Its just to the rear of the left hand tool compartment in the cargo space of the surf, which means its hidden behind the plastic just in front of the kerbside rear light.
For a first timer this should take an hour. The relay box contains a circuit board with 6 different relays on it to do with window up, dwn, wiper this and wiper that etc. The relay box from an early 2nd gen (ie '89 and '90 also I'm sure) is slightly different and wont fit your connector block.

[Josh]

They are funny things these back windows, I have had it go up only say 2 inches on the key and have to go and put it up another 2 inches from the inside switch and to and fro like like this until its up. This has happened a few times mainly in the wet, needless to say you get some odd looks from people, but it is especially worrying when you have a few k's worth of kit in the back. I think it must be female, cos it will play up and the next time you use it it's fine?????? blo0dy thing

[PaulL]

Well, I've managed to get the rear window up by disconnecting various bits including the rear wiper, and finally I have been able to check the keylock condition. Which is fine. The switch and key lock itself seem to be in fine working order, no sign of water intrusion, etc. So that eliminates that. The other door switches - the latch interlocks, door lock switch microswitch, and window up/down microswitch - all seem to be working (continuity tested in "on" and "off").

However - now the window is up, it won't go up or down either on interior or exterior switch. I've now resorted to removing the relay unit from behind the side panel (bit of an effort that).

Can anyone suggest (a) a way of testing/proving the relay unit, and (b) where I can get a replacement...?

Cheers

Paul.