Phone Call from Customs and Excise

[Matt the Cat]

The only trouble is that HMRC are not there to worry about the environment. Their job is to collect money and as much of it as they can get!!
The Govt themselves and Dept for the Environment are the ones to get at.
Have a look at this, might be worth a bash http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page849.asp

[KeithP]

Check out the C&E website update

Has anyone had a look for the new 179e form. Its been updated, unless I missed something the update says nothing new or takes away from the previous definition of 'biodiesel'.

From what I can gather if I/we can get a manufacturer to supply a breakdown of the veg oil, including whatever biomass it is produced from then it will meet the fiscal definition.

On other things... it has been since 15/10/2005 when I sent my request under the FOI act. According to that, section 10, they have 20 working days to reply/acknowledge. Unless I missed something. Anyone had a look at it and interpreted it different.

Initially though, based on their new 179e I will be asking to be re instated as a biodiesel producer.

Regards
Keith

[xhangar18]

Yes I read it the same way. I argued with the bloke but he was adamant that I was fuel substitute producer. When I read the 179E it clearly states (tell me if I am wrong) that by using SVO mix with diesel you are producing a diesel quality fuel. I am going to be writing to the C & E about this as I find it strange that in black and white print they say one thing but when you apply they state another. I think they are chasing the almighty buck if you will. I will let you know how I get on. Still trying to figure out what to say to them. They just try to weasel out of everything you throw at em. It is an absolute disgrace. Really get on my tits this dodging of the truth.

[db2boy]

The only trouble is that HMRC are not there to worry about the environment. Their job is to collect money and as much of it as they can get!!
The Govt themselves and Dept for the Environment are the ones to get at.
Have a look at this, might be worth a bash http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page849.asp

I followed this up the other day. Do I think Tone' will read it, no? I do believe though that if enough people make a point and thoughts and anger felt it will filter through.

Rgds

Ant

[Matt the Cat]

I followed this up the other day. Do I think Tone' will read it, no? I do believe though that if enough people make a point and thoughts and anger felt it will filter through.

Rgds

Ant

If they get enough letters/emails on the same subject, then they wont be able to ignore it. (That's the theory anyway!)
You never know your luck, you don't get anything from doing nothing.

[KeithP]

Just sent them a follow-up to my previous.

Dear *******,
It is now 16 working days since I sent my request for information under
the Freedom of Information Act 2000. I believe under section 10 you have up
to 20 working days to reply/acknowledge. Has there been any movement on
this. I have also read your amended form 179e and I see there is nothing
that detracts from what I have already stated in my previous correspondence
regarding the fiscal definition of 'biodiesel'. As such I am repeating my
request to be re-registered as a biodiesel producer.

Have you any further information?

Regards

[KeithP]

Guess who finally had a reply

When you read the reply sent to my earlier request for information you will weep. They copped out.

Any thoughts from anyone?

I am getting together a suitable reply. I still don't think they have answered my question about re-registering me as a 'biodiesel' producer and from what I can see on the amended 179e (which I just recieved a shiney new copy of through (typo the f1nger5 are fa5t3r than the brain :0( )the post) veg oil still meets their 'fiscal definition'

Regards all
Keith

[Bogus]

Gee, what a surprise ! Did anyone ever believe that the Freedom of information act was actually going to lead to freedom of Information ? It was intended to fool the public into thinking that the government are nice, as they knew damn well most of would never bother to ask for any of this information and if a few did, well they just brazen it out and tell you nothing or hide behind public interest national security or whatever. The only information that you will ever receive under this act will be either useless information, or information you could have easily obtained by reading a book or something. Cynical maybe but thats how it works. Has nobody noticed that they are busy eroding our Freedoms while they announce acts like this to throw us off the scent. Freedom to Hunt, Freedom to play with guns, freedom to smoke, and freedom to drink on trains. What else is on the horizon ? freedom to drive a 4x 4 unless youre a farmer? You may approve of some of these bans or even actively support them, but remember, its only a matter of time before something you like doing gets it.

Bogus

[fatfires]

just a thought!

those of us with Ser 1&2 - we dont own 4x4's! as we would not use 4wd on roads (risk of winding up the trans) and it looks as though the government is saying we cant go off road - then it looks as though we are 2wd the same as most other motorists!!!!!
Swivel Mr Blair & up yours tree huggers

[the careful driver]

Any thoughts from anyone?
Regards all
Keith

Wow.

100% nonsense

Please see below a bit of research. Maybe some nonsense here, but there is some use in in too Keith.

Peter

Sample reply as follows :


re

FOI Act, Section 35 Part 5

(5) In this section-

"the Law Officers" means the Attorney General, the Solicitor General, the Advocate General for Scotland, the Lord Advocate, the Solicitor General for Scotland and the Attorney General for Northern Ireland;

Please confirm that the 'legal advice' you have taken is from one of the above.

If not, please release the information.


Please Also See

FOI Section 35 Part 2

(2) Once a decision as to government policy has been taken, any statistical information used to provide an informed background to the taking of the decision is not to be regarded-

(a) for the purposes of subsection (1)(a), as relating to the formulation or development of government policy, or


Our comment.

The legal framework must, de facto be based on quantifiable, ie, statistical evidence. Otherwise it is mere conjecture, therefore, inadmissible to policy creation. Therefore, release the information as you as agents of government policy have now decided what the policy is. Therefore all discussion leading up to the decision as to how to implement this policy is releaseable (see note (2) above).

Please release this information since this is no longer a matter "under consideration" but a matter which has been decided, therefore is not longer afforded protection under the act.



Re - Legal professional privilege.
FOI Section 42. - (1) Information in respect of which a claim to legal professional privilege or, in Scotland, to confidentiality of communications could be maintained in legal proceedings is exempt information.

(2) The duty to confirm or deny does not arise if, or to the extent that, compliance with section 1(1)(a) would involve the disclosure of any information (whether or not already recorded) in respect of which such a claim could be maintained in legal proceedings.


Section 35 part 2 effectively annuls this licence to withhold information, ONCE THE DECISION HAS BEEN MADE, unless the decision is mere opinion and not based on statistical evidence or fact.



Re - the decision to withhold Biodiesel producer status.

Notwithstanding any of the legal refinements of the comments above, any pointers and reasons for your decision must be salient and clear in your letters to me.

The law of this land is written in general by parliament, and interpreted by the courts of law.

Any evidences you have must be salient to the public ergo to the law courts.

Whether you have, or have not, taken legal advice is a red herring. The points of the argument must be salient. If not, please go away and make you arguments clearer.

Any reasons you have for agreeing to, or not agreeing to register someone as a biodiesel producer must be clearly stated. If there is a case of disagreement, the final arbiter is the Torte or Law Courts. If you don't give your reasons the Law Courts will throw out your arguments. Whether or not you have taken 'Legal Advice' is irrelevant.

At this point, your grounds for refusing approval are specious, inadequate, stalling, misunderstood, and false. I qualify in all respects.

As regards your 'legal advice', please note, you have begun to realise this is an environmenal issue........
[ see you letter page 2 re Biodiesel] ..... "and to reflect its environmental benefits" ....... ]

Do you realise that Vegoil is actually a MORE environmentally friendly biofuel than B100 biodiesel, the purest form of pure Biodiesel?

You are beginning to lose your own argument in your letter to me.


Please reconsider these matters.


1. Please release the information requested, following the legal advice given above.

2. Please institute me as a Biodiesel producer.

Thank you

[KeithP]

Wow careful driver, quite a few nice points raised, and eloquently put. I was trying to study in detail the relevent sections of FOI and was slowly getting there, but your explaination has helped me alot.

Many thanks

I will post my reply later this week after I have got it all together

Anyone else out there still using svo registered as a 'biodiesel' producer paying the lower rate or have they been in touch and re registered everyone at the higher rate. I won't mention any names in my reply.

Regards
Keith

[CaptainBeaky]

When you read the reply sent to my earlier request for information you will weep. They copped out.

Any thoughts from anyone?

Regards all
Keith

100% pure bullsh1t.

They are stalling, giving you the run-around and hoping you will give up and go away.

Carefuldriver Peter says it all in his reply above.


Disgustedly,

[the careful driver]

Many thanks

I will post my reply later this week after I have got it all together

Regards
Keith

I kind of went off on one there didn't I ?! I've just been doing a lot of web research this week on tax law and seem to have got into it a bit. They probably can come back on you on 'Legal Privilege' to withhold direct communication between them and their lawyers, but that is irrelevant since they have to make any points of argument clear and can't say 'we are withholding validation from you but are keeping the reason secret'. That is not Law.

Just for a note, I think the government will eventually approve vegoil at the lower rate, it's just you are having to go through this nonsense with the tax office.

Thanks for keeping posting Keith

Peter

[Chillitt]

you dont think they have bumped it up so gordon (our saviour..) can announce a huge cut in tax to save the world? so, so, cynical...

[pops]

wish the C&E would phone me so i can give them few choice words
as i have phoned them 4 times now for a ex103 form and got nothing yet
been going on for months now