HM Customs said...

[KeithP]

I just got in contact with HM Customs to register, get the ex130 form etc., had an interesting talk with the person there about the use of veg oil as a bio-diesel/fuel substitute.

She said people had mistakenly put straight veg oil from the supermarket in their car and when if found out were charged the full tax rate for the fuel they were substituting, ie diesel. This was because it did'nt meet the definition of bio diesel ' not less than 96.5% ester, sulphur content not exceeding 0.005% by weight'.

She then went on to say that if I used recovered oil, filtered etc. then that was classed as bio diesel which would attract the lower rate of 27.1p per litre.

I asked how could recovered filtered oil be any cleaner different to brand new oil bought from the local supermarket, not really a clean answer, so to speak off that one.

I then asked her to clarify what constitutes bio diesel as apposed to fuel substitute, she said any that meets the above requirements.... So I said, if I got at test done on a particular brand of veg oil from different supermarkets and they met those requirements regarding ester and sulphur would that be classed as a bio diesel.. Yes it would.

Trying to stay legit on this, would anyone more knowlegeable be able to comment on this..

Surely brand new unused veg oil must meet the above requirements?

[Philip]

Duty

I might be wrong, but veg oil has no sulphur and is 100% ester. I told woman that i was setting aside ex amount of veg oil a month and asked what would happen if i put diesel in the tank and was told that as tax is paid already its OK. My understanding is that if you mix veg oil and diesel outside the car its a substitute, requiring higher tax, but if gets mixed in the tank, its OK.
I am paying the lower tax, although they tried to charge me the higher rate to start.
Basically i don't think they know, story different depending on who you speak to.
Rgds Philip

[chunkymonkey]

Yeah - veg oil has no sulpohur and is 100% ester - C & E woman was talking rubbish. Pure veg oil meets all the biodiesel criteria. The difference in duty arises as you have to be able to run your car on pure veg oil for it to qualify as a biofuel. If you use it as part of a mix with diesel (i.e. effectivley just bulking out the diesel) then you have to pay the full whack.

As philip says - so long as you only set aside pure veg oil and tell c&e that you run only on veg oil you should only have to pay the lower duty.

[TonyN]

My understanding is that if you mix veg oil and diesel outside the car its a substitute, requiring higher tax, but if gets mixed in the tank, its OK.

This is it, you 'set aside' so much pure veg oil, new or used, a month, and this is your 'bio-diesel' and what you need to pay lower tax on.

If you have to buy diesel in while your out, it doesn't matter, tax is paid already.

You can run on veg or diesel, put either in you car whenever, just don't pre mix it.

Veg oil mixed with diesel outside a cars fuel tank is not bio-diesel, just diesel substute, and you pay the full tax rate.

Stupid beurocracy, but there you go! Surely nobody really belives the people who make the rules really know what they are talking about.

[Surf01]

I am a bit puzzled by thsi duty stuff. If you but from a shop, i.e.Aldi you pay VAT on the oil. Is this taken into account when paying the duty on the oil. In effect you are being taxed twice for the same commodity.

[Philip]

As far as i know, VAT and duty are two seperate things.
Rgds Philip

[andycook]

What I can gather from all this discussion,
is just state on forms you are using 100% veg oil,
regardless of what you "actually" do, i.e. mix it in tank 50:50
as there seems to be a lot of miss-understanding at the HM customs on what they advise, and different people get a different story.
and if you say anything about mixing to them, they slap you on the higher duty rate.
well thats what i probably do,

[dirtydog]

and the oil i buy from costco is VAT free anyway

[leejs_uk]

I am a bit puzzled by thsi duty stuff. If you but from a shop, i.e.Aldi you pay VAT on the oil. Is this taken into account when paying the duty on the oil. In effect you are being taxed twice for the same commodity.

you dont pay vat on food products and that includes veg oil

[dirtydog]

you dont pay vat on food products and that includes veg oil

yeah what he said

[andycook]

costco veg oil?

Can you get catering sized drums of veg oil at costco?
say 10 or 50 litre?

we have one in Aberdeen, and i was going to ask a colleague who uses it to take a look, but if anyomne on here knows.

[pops]

phoned the cussys again today still not got my ex103
she told me it was sent 2 months back so when i told her i not receive it, and checked my address she said they sent it too no 42 i live at 36
so 3 doors up the guys just moved out week ago and he drives a deisel wonder if he opened it and thought i'll have some of this and kept it
anyway they sending me another
so with my ex103 coming soon can someone please send me what i should put on the bally thing to get registered for the 27p option as reading all the posts on the forum after a search has left me !!! well confused

[Philip]

Pops

Call me on 0208 8969172, when it arrives.
Rgds Philip

[KeithP]

Many thanks for all the replies

Thank you everyone, I can now see the wood for the trees, waiting for the forms to arrive, have a locked garage in which to 'set aside' my oil, just wondering if to make it water tight (not the garage that is) if I might pay for a couple of samples from various outlets to be laboratory tested and provide me with a certificate of the make up regarding the ester and sulphur. After all they can't then argue with that. Can they?

Regards all
Keith

[miketilley]

Can you get catering sized drums of veg oil at costco?
say 10 or 50 litre?

we have one in Aberdeen, and i was going to ask a colleague who uses it to take a look, but if anyomne on here knows.

The largest size COSTCO do is 20ltrs if I remember correctly