red diesel - heating oil

[Albannach]

wow...

What?

[slobodan]

What?

Your capitulation. It was, well, without a fight. Most unlike you. We have grown to expect more, in fact I insist you fight your corner!

[smiffy]

You can filter it through loafs of mothers pride bread,it takes the colour out............but dont use warbutons

Oh and i'm sure you can run hilichopprs on heating oil,kerosine,however the hell you spell it.

[dieselboy]

Oh and i'm sure you can run hilichopprs on heating oil,kerosine,however the hell you spell it.

Anything that is not to be used on public highways is as I understood it.

[Smego2]

It has to be cracked to remove it.

Don't talk rubbish they make cheap filters to remove it instantly, look!!

http://www.fenixlight.co.nz/_media/i...-filter-m-.jpg

[angelonawire]

Don't do it!!

I work with an ex-copper, I was picking his brains on what would happen if I was caught running cherry. so he told me all about it.......
apparently it doesn't matter if you remove the dye, because there were some pikeys managing to do this on a regular basis and punting the stuff to a bunch of thrifty motorists, the customs and excise chappies got wise to this and there is now additives that they check for when dipping your tank. the additives are in normal duty paid diesel, so when they dip you and don't find what they are lookin for the get a bit twitchy and can impound your wagon for further investigation. If you are caught bang to rights you have to pay an estimated amount of retrospective duty, plus a hefty fine...and if they feel like it they can confiscate your vehicle and you don't get a Queen's shilling in return........

Is it worth the Gamble???? Angel

[v8greg]

Red and the great sceme of things...

Ok - its Illegal to use Red Diesel on the road -if you need a tax disc on a road then it applies. You can use it OFF road- IE your vehicle never goes off a farm or private land. There is NO DIFFERENCE between RED or normal pump diesel - except some RED diesels have a slightly lower octane rating - less bang for your buck - BUT it has the SAME viscosity rating - Im sure farmer giles and his 100 grand tractor wont be taking any chances putting a sub standard fuel into his pride and joy. IT IS possible to remove the red dye from the diesel a usual urban myth being the famous (yawns) 'fullers earth' trick- however this comes at a price -if you 'filter' red diesel to remove its colour your end product WILL lose its lubricating qualities - good bye engine hello repair bills. The RED dye stains everything it comes into contact with in your vehicle -fuel filters - lines - tank- everything.Yes it can be flushed out but it will take a while and there is no 'quick fix'. There IS a a way you can dye the RED diesel to another colour - a dye thats readily available will dye it BLUE. Blue diesel is NOT illegal to use on the road but theres a catch - when the RED dye is added to normal diesel at the refinery it carries a 'chemical code' - this means that no matter how you try and dye the RED diesel, filter the colour, bleach it - in fact anything you can think of it still retains its RED chemical code.

So, you dye, remove, filter the RED diesel and put it in your tank - you get a tug by VOSA as (surprise surprise) you are driving a 4x4 and they are heavily used by farmers who have easy access to RED diesel and you are informed that they are going to dip your tank - ha ha you think - no problem its not RED anymore...oh dear, what you didnt count on was VOSA man is equipped with more than a dipping stick.... VOSA man pulls out a swab and smiles at you ...at this point you kinda get the impression that VOSA man may be getting the upper hand.. he swabs your exhaust ..(remember that chemical signature from earlier?)..He then asks you how you intend to pay the fine ....oh, and maybe your mate better pick you up as you wont be driving anywhere as of right there and then.

Having red (no pun) up on things I reckon veg oil is a better way to go -Heres a thought - RED is approx 95p a litre - Pump diesel is 1.35- thats 40p approx difference - so 100 litres is £40 'saved' 1000 litres is £400 'saved'
10000 litres is £4000 'saved'.

There is an argument that you were going to pay the road excise duty on the RED diesel -and as its paid retrospectively you may have grounds to argue that you ARE going to pay the duty etc. However VOSA man has probably heard every excuse under the sun and as a govenment agent he will have the Customs and Excise behind him 100%. (Or in English - they've got more mates than you have)


THE bottom line is this.......
It is a criminal offence that could attract unlimited fines, the confiscation of fuel or vehicles or even a prison sentence

It is a criminal offence to Misuse or supply red diesel or mix it with any other fuel. It is also an offence to move any designated chemical marker or dye from the red diesel or add anything that might counteract the marker.

People or organisations caught misusing red diesel can be dealt with ‘administratively’ by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs; that is, fined or otherwise punished without going to court. However anyone who feels they have been wrongly treated in this process can appeal to HMRC within 45 days of the original decision for an Independent Review Officer to re-examine the decision made. If still unhappy the matter can be appealed to the VAT and Duties Tribunal within 30 days. ...Yeah and Im sure you or I stand no chance of winning that one


You may think Im being a bit harsh or taking the mick - but forewarned is forearmed

PHEW!...
Im certain somones gonna correct me and say its all possible etc etc etc - ok by me - Im not here to have an argument - but then Im not the one trying to save £20 on a tank full... LORD knows I begrudge it just as much as anyone else!

[schrodingers-cat]

Dug that one up from a few months back didn`t ya ? Interesting tho answered a few things i didn`t know. Think i`ll just stick to 50/50 diesel veg till the weather improves
Never had my fuel checked in 35 years on the road. Has anyone else ?

[v8greg]

red ....2

just browsing at work mate....too much time ....dont get out much lol

No i agree - never been stopped - and go past them all twice a week ... only thing that grates with me is the urban myth thing...hence the long ( way too much time on my hands ) reply....

[nos4ra2]

There is NO DIFFERENCE between RED or normal pump diesel - except some RED diesels have a slightly lower octane rating -

Red and white aren't the same product either-red weighs less than white. I deliver the stuff for a living.I can carry less white than red and it's a lot more difference than the dye would make. It's cetane rating not octane btw
It's certainly not worth the risk though-Customs and Excise have lists of everywhere that buys red diesel and vehicles at those sites are first on the 'dip list'.

I've been dipped before and I've seen it happen many times.

Incidentally, v8greg is wrong on only one other thing and it's pretty minor.

It is a criminal offence to Misuse or supply red diesel or mix it with any other fuel.

It's not illegal under certain circumstances. Ie, it's illegal to mix it with white diesel, but it's not illegal to mix it with rebated duty non-road fuels (like kerosene). It's quite common (and legal) for farmers or people running heating on red diesel to mix a bit of kerosene in with their red to stop it gelling if it's not winter blend.

Oh, and Smiffy (yeah, so last year ) You can't run a helicopter on Kerosene. They run on Jet A1 or Jet A2,which while it carries the same UN number as kerosene, is more flammable.

[Albannach]

I love these discussions, opinion based on Google and theory based on nothing

[nos4ra2]

I love these discussions, opinion based on Google and theory based on nothing

Not from me it's not-I work for a major petrochemicals company. I also have to fill out C&E paperwork every day declaring if I think the rebated duty fuels are being used for the purpose stated upon ordering.

[Albannach]

Not from me it's not-I work for a major petrochemicals company.

I didn't name names.

So do I.

[v8greg]

excellent

Thanks for the corrections and updates Gentlemen...Points taken and agreed - Im pleased that you posted the gliches on my post etc as I am always up for learning.

Didnt know about the weight thing - to be honest it didnt even occur to me - food for thought - glad the rest of the post was ok though !

[Calos]

My father uesd to be part of clwyd ices, before I was born he was asked to pull over and have his tank dipped, it was pretty funny though, it was a petrol van.

People used to use marine derv here on the coast a lot too, wich is dyed blue, that's not so cheap anymore.

Guess the test would spot that stuff as well?

No I don't use it, I don't like the duty but it's not worth loosing my truck for.

peace
cal