Brakes..

[Tonka]

Hi there

Sorting my Surf out has turned into a bit of a mammoth task, now I've realised I need new calipers as well as discs, to be honest I'm well out of my comfort zone but I've got to a point where I can't get it to a garage, so I've got to see it through! I need it back on the road for Monday morning. Anyway, I've got new calipers from Roughtrax.

I clamped the brake hose and seem to have dealt with leaks etc, it's installed (one side only), my question is, what is the best way to blead the lines? I've got both Haynes and Ellory manuals, just wondered if anyone would like to share some tips. Been thinking of taking a trip to Halfords to see what might help in terms of Gunson bits etc...

Secondly, I'm finding the Ellory manual a bit confusing - which brake calipers do I have on my LN130 Surf? Any tips on using that manual greatly appreciated also!

Cheers

[woodwarm]

hi Jon

if you had posted earlier today, could have given you some help

at home today gardening

Robert

[Wolfracer]

lots of fluid, a ring spanner and a friend.
Fill
Press
Open
Close
Fill
Press
Open
Close
Fill
Press
Open
Close
Fill
Press
Open
Close

You get the idea...
In the back of my head though, I've got a thought that you should do them in an order...posiible starting with closest to the resevoir, or is it the furthest...

[BUSHWHACKER]

http://mike-thomson.com/blog/?p=927

[Tonka]

Thanks guys, got the job done but I'm not totally confident in it. Even after almost a whole bottle of fluid I was still getting little bubbles. We'll see I guess...

[Dobbslc]

You might find that the bubbles are coming from around the bleed nipple threads when you loosen it for bleeding and not the brake system itself.
If you only just crack the bleed nipple open a bit then press down on it it might stop the air getting in around the threads when you back off the pedel pressure. You could also put a bit of ptfe tape around the thread.
Also check the tube on your bleeder is a tight fit on the bleed nipple.
I blead a bike front brake once and put loads of fluid through it before I realized what was happening.
Hope this helps.

[Tonka]

I think you're quite right, that may well be what's happening. I'm going to have another go at it this afternoon....

[Tonka]

Still not getting this right....

Think I'm going to give in and take it somewhere to get this done tomorrow. I've bled both fronts - should I have bled the rears as well? I've replaced both callipers, not sure what the line setup on the Surf is.

Will have to have another look at the manuals I suppose. I also wish I'd put some PTFE on the threads before I connected the lines to the callipers.

[Albannach]

I also wish I'd put some PTFE on the threads before I connected the lines to the callipers.

Why?

[NiftyNev]

I usually have no problem bleeding brakes on the Surfs and use no more than one bottle of fluid. Had to replace rear drums, shoes and wheel cylinders on one the other day and even after going through three bottles of fluid, there were still huge amounts of air in the system. Something was wrong somewhere, but did not have time to find out what it was at the time. Did this Surf a while back when the front end had new calipers fitted and did not have a problem then. Still scratching my head wondering whats wrong. May get to take another look this weekend.

Nev.

[Tonka]

Yeah, I don't know what's going on here, but I think I should have clamped the lines more securely and wish I'd put clingfilm under the master cylinder cap as well as putting PTFE on the bleed nipple threads. The replacement callipers from Roughtrax have bleed nipples which are a loose fit until tightened, on retrospect, so when I even crack the nipple open slightly it's leaking down the calliper. Which means I guess that it must be taking in air as well.

In any case I reckon I'd spend another £20 on fluid and Kwik Fit are charging £40 to replace the lot, so that's what I'm doing. Have spent enough time underneath the beast in the cold and wet (I have no garage) for the time being!

Am I right in understanding that the Surfs are a 2 line system and how are the lines split?

[Tonka]

Shoulda known better!!!!

Kwik Fit said the job went fine, no problems. I got in (they were closing) and drove away, thought the brake seemed a bit spongy, but thought I'd drive it home.....

So the pedal still sinks too far, although it's better than when I gave it to them. What did shock me was when I checked under the bonnet and saw leaking brake fluid everywhere. The master cylinder was full to the lid and must have popped off with the pressure of me pushing the brake pedal. I had brake fluid down the inner wings and over the pipework etc. No real damage done, but pretty annoying to have to clean it all off and then syphon the excess out of the master cylinder when you've paid good money, they'll be getting a phone call tomorrow, but something tells me they won't give too hoots.

Yeah, I know, I should have known better, but I thought this was such a straight forward thing for people who must bleed brakes all the ###### time (for christ's sakes).

Oh well. Thanks for listening. Rant over.

[NiftyNev]

I got in (they were closing) and drove away, thought the brake seemed a bit spongy, but thought I'd drive it home.....

So the pedal still sinks too far, although it's better than when I gave it to them.

Same with the one I was working on. Spongy pedal and if used a lot the pedal drops. Apparently a new master cylinder was installed a while back by someone else, but the problem persisted. Then the old master was rekitted and no better. I'll let you know if I find out what the problem is.

Nev.

[wishbone]

When bleeding try undoing the lspv from the panhard rod and tying it up high - it lets more pressure get to the back drums and (for me at least) makes it easier to get all the air out.

Rob.

[Tonka]

Many thanks for the tip, what's an lspv?

It's going back to Kwik Fit for them to have another go at it....

They say they never normally syphon off the excess fluid when they've pressure filled it, as there should be no pressure in the master cylinder, so being above the Max mark doesn't matter. Does everyone agree with that?