Steering vibration and slight whining noise

[mattt]

Hi, I am trying to pinpoint the cause of a recent steering issue.

When cold, the steering has a slight vibration to it which if i open the window and really listen for it, I can hear a slight sort of whirling noise. It's not a severe vibration, it's very slight but obviously not supposed to be doing it.

Once warmed up, it goes back to normal.

My fan belt has been slipping, I have tightened it up a lot but it's still slipping when cold. I am worried that if i tighten it any more then it might break.

My alternator belts are also quite loose but I have not worked out how to tighten those yet.

Power steering fluid is at the right level according to the cap measurement marks.

Does anyone have any idea's on what is wrong and any tips on how to tighten the alternator belts?

I'm clearly no mechanic but I am a quick learner, I just need pointing in the right direction

Also, If I have to replace the alternator belts, how do i get my hands in there to do it? Do i have to remove the water pump to get access?

Thanks for helping me out!
Matt

[woodwarm]

pointing in the right direction

i'm sure Tony or Bushwacker have the answers.

[mattt]

as always seems to be the way with these things, Only after i posted did google begin to reveal the information I was searching for.

It look's as though the tensioning pulley for the two alternator belts (one if which may or may not be the power steering belt) is accessed from underneath.

I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow and see if I can get under there to get to it.

I am really hoping that this is not serious and that I can just tension the belts and be done with it. I looked on roughtrax for a steering pump last night and it was £200

My next question is - how do i know what the correct tension is on the belts?

[TonyN]

3.0's don't have a power steering belt.

An easy way to set the belts to make them tight enough so you can just about twist the middle of the longest section by 90 deg.

The alternator belt tension is set by moving the alternator, the lock and tension setting bolts are right under the alternator, you can take the battery out to make getting to it easier.

The A/C belt tensioner/idler is right at the front near the top, you can't miss it.

There's nothing thats any easier to get to from underneath in my experiance.

Check the A/C belt idler, the bearing often wears and makes a noise.

There're other things it could be, but get the belts sorted first.

[mattt]

Thanks Tony, that explains why i cant find the power steering belt then

In the absence of a power steering belt, am i off on a wild goose chase with the alternator belts then?

Are you saying that the correct tension on the belts will be when i can twist the middle by 90 degrees?

My fan belt is a lot tighter than that, it was squealing quite badly so i felt that i had to tighten it. Since i tightened the fan belt, the pitch of the belt sequel went up, it's higher pitch now and not anywhere near as loud.

The belts were all changed about 4 months ago.

I'll look for the Air conditioning belt as well. Do any of these belts affect the power steering then?

Cheers
Matt

[Wolfracer]

Sounds like a dry bearing to me. You can try squirting a tiny amount of WD40 onto each pulley in turn and hear when the sound disappears. It won't be gone for long though, and WD40 is not a fix, nor is it a lubricator.

[mattt]

Bearings on the belt pulley's?

[wishbone]

Just to make sure - you do know the fan can be moved by hand without the belts turning ? It sounds like you have over tightened the fan belts...

[NiftyNev]

If a belt is badly worn, no amount of tightening will make it work. V belts rely an the sides to drive the pulley. If they are worn enough to bottom out on the pulley then time to replace them. They should normally sit just a little higher than the pulley OD. Too tight and you start to destroy bearings in the alternator.

Nev

[mattt]

Yes the fan will move by hand without the belts turning.

What do you mean by that?

For clarification I have 3 belts, 2 which go around the Alternator and some other pulleys and then one longer one which I have been calling the fan belt but may be the AC belt.

It's the one that is not going round the alternator that is slipping but probably too tight as well.

New belts. I'll check the bearings on the AC tensioner bearing as well.

Back to the steering, can anyone point me to a some documentation that explains the steering system?

How do the belts relate to the steering vibration problem?

[mattt]

If a belt is badly worn, no amount of tightening will make it work. V belts rely an the sides to drive the pulley. If they are worn enough to bottom out on the pulley then time to replace them. They should normally sit just a little higher than the pulley OD. Too tight and you start to destroy bearings in the alternator.

Nev

Yeah they are not worn down really, they stick up just above the edge of the pulley and still have teeth.

From what Tony said, the 2 alternator belts are probably at the correct tension, they just seem loose compared to the longer AC belt which is now very tight but still squealing a bit

[wishbone]

Yes the fan will move by hand without the belts turning.

What do you mean by that?

You said you think the belt is way too tight and still slipping. I was thinking that maybe you assumed the fan being able to be turned was a sign of it slipping. It isn't.

[mattt]

You said you think the belt is way too tight and still slipping. I was thinking that maybe you assumed the fan being able to be turned was a sign of it slipping. It isn't.

OK 2 things,

I think the belt is slipping because of the squealing noise when cold. The pitch of squeal rises the tighter the belt is.

Second thing, despite the power steering fluid appearing to be at the correct level, i put some more in anyway. The vibration has gone away.

I think it must have just been low fluid. The fluid is quite dark so the hot and cold level indicators in the cap must have had thick fluid on them and not actually been showing the actual level.

Well, At least I leant something about the car today.

Thanks so much for all your help. I still need to figure out why the belt is slipping but at least the steering seems ok now.

I'm not sure if this is allowed but it may help others, i found links to the manual here http://daemon4x4.org/portal/downloads.php?dcid=17

[wishbone]

Maybe pop the air con belt off to make sure it is that belt making the noise - you can check the tensioner bearing while it's off as well.

Other thing it could be is the rubber in the crankshaft pulley giving up - try a search on 'harmonic balancer'

[mattt]

yeah i'm pretty sure it is the belt, maybe the pulley, I will do as you say and pop it off to test.

With the steering fluid, I don't trust the cap level markers anymore, if i look down into the reservoir, I can just about see the fluid above the thing at the bottom, a filter or something I don't know. Should there be more in there than that or does that seem about right?

The belts were a nightmare to put on 4 months ago, they seemed too small but we got them on by lowering the tensioning pulley to it's lowest position, The belt has clearly stretched as the pulley is now half way between lowest and highest position.

I got the 3 belt kit off ebay, I have heard from others that they are normally a bugger to put on. Think i'll get another set from roughtrax, £20 seems like a small price to pay to sort this out.