stripped thread on auto box sump

[mickey]

Oh dear! Only my second attempt at changing the auto trans fluid and i've only gorn and messed things up.

The first time I did the change, there was something amiss with the sump bung I recall, but, as it nipped up without too much drama, i'd kinda forgotten about it.

Today I went for the second change, and things were looking grim from the start. The sump bung didn't seem to loosen progressivly. It wasn't hard to undo, and it certainly didn't need a hammer to get it started, but it did require steady pressure all the way down.

On re tightening, it seemed to dramatically loosen half way up, and then tightened up slightly. It won't nip up though. You can turn it indefinitely. Ho hum!

Anyway, figuring i'd need fluid in the box, I left it be and filled up anyway..But, it is leaking.

What is the solution? I'm not sure if it's the bung or the sump thats the problem, is one far more likely than the other? And, is there something I can put around or over it for now that won't require a lump hammer and bolster to remove when the problem gets addressed?

Thanks in anticipation of your input..

[mickey]

Argggg, I got covered in it! I thought i'd had a good idea. Remembering I had a spare engine oil sump bung in the shed, I wondered if they might not be the same size?

Still with the bucket [well actually a large paint kettle] under the car, I took a spanner to it, only to drop the spanner into several litres of Dextron. I got the old bung out, and went to fit the new one, only that fell into the dextron too. I lost a large amount of red stuff before I realised it was a different thread size.

I took the washer off anyway, and replaced the origional bung with the washer from the engine oil sump plug. Obviously there isn't much thread sticking into the auto box sump now, but it does appear to have stemmed the flow for now. I'm not confident, because it won't take much to loosen it.

Roughtrax haven't got any replacements, and advised I go to the main dealer. My last experience with Toyota King's Lynn wasn't great, as they said they couldn't sell me any batteries as there was no record of my vehicle on any database...Which is a bit weird, because there obviously was when they changed the ignition barrel and had it made to the origional spec [so all the old keys worked in it and I didn't need seperate door keys]

Has anyone got the means to source the part number? I may as well try the easy option first.

[NiftyNev]

90341-10006 plug and 35178-30010 gasket. You may need to drop the pan and have the thread repaired or helicoiled.

Nev

[TonyN]

I have a whole used sump you could have for £15 inc postage with bung if worst comes to worst.

If the thread if foobarred, this probably cheaper than a helicoil set.

I'll await your e-mail......

[mickey]

Cheers Tony..I've given Toyota King's Lynn a call, and they were really helpfull. In fact, because I called them before midday, the bung could even be here this afternoon!

If the bung isn't the culprit, then i'll have your sump thanks. There looks to be about 4000 bolts holding it on, but I guess its a straightforward swap?

Re the gasket/washer on the new bung, well, i haven't ordered one due to the origional not having one on? Should it have?

I wish i'd done it via the pipes and bucket now! Stupid thing being, the old stuff came out bright red and looked as though it was put in yesterday! Probably didn't even need doing.

Is there anyone in Norfolk willing to put Tony's sump on for me should it be required..I'm fed up working on cars now!

[NiftyNev]

Re the gasket/washer on the new bung, well, i haven't ordered one due to the origional not having one on? Should it have?

Yes. You could use a fibre or copper washer. Copper is probably the better of the two. No idea what the original seal is. It could be copper as well.

Nev

[BioHazard]

Excuse me for being ignorant but do the 3l's have a filter like the 2.4's ........if so clean it whilst you have the sump off

[mickey]

Right, this is where i'm at, and it's not a great deal further on.

The service from Toyota King's lynn was fantastic. The sump bung arrived three and a half hours after I ordered it!

I popped into Halfords to pick up 5 ltrs of Comma Dextron 111, but they didn't have any. Not really wanting to wrestle with 1 ltr bottles, I drove to East Dereham branch, and £22:95 later I'd secured my carton of red stuff. I also picked up a bag of mixed washers, seeing as i'd not ordered one with the bung.

Taking out the old bung and putting the new one in place with Dextron running down my arm wasn't much fun, specially as the new one didn't fit and i'd discarded the old one in the gravel..Grrr

I lay floundering under the rig with a finger plugging the fluid whilst groping for the lost bung. When I finally located it, on inspection, it was quite obviously stripped..almost bare!

I couldn't cope with the humiliation of it all, so surrended. I'll drain all the Dextron out in the morning, then try and fit the new sump bung. I'm assuming the thread on the sump has been distorted, as I couldn't get a turn on the bung. However, as the bung has obviously lost a fight, I'm hoping that maybe if I can get a turn on the new one, it might go? Yeah, okay, maybe not.

If I need Tony's sump, then could anyone explain the large black pipe running from the nearside of the sump and dissapearing into the chassis? Is it attached to anything easilly accessible at the other end? It doesn't look easy to remove from the sump...And, I guess I'll need some gasket stuff to seal it all off? Toyota did say they'd tackle it, but not guarantee it as its a used part..Any guesses as to how long a job it would be?

Sorry to make such a drama of it, but I'm out of my depth already!

I'll update and give Tony the verdict on his offer in the morning

[mickey]

Covered in it again! Tried a different container which needed a smaller funnel. It wasn't a suitable combination but it has left the drive gleaming.

Drained the atf and tried the new bung, but no way was it going to grab. In fact, i've now smoothed off the 1st thread in trying.

Looks like an email will be winging it's way to Tony in a few minutes.

I've worked out that the pipe is in fact connected to the dipstick tube. I'm guessing it'll disconnect half way up or something?

Also, reading other threads relating to dropping the sump pan, it seems like the front section of exhaust will need to be removed. I can see the obvious but rusted connection just behind the sump, but how high up is the 2nd join..Will I need to but new gaskets from roughtrax to reconnect it after, or can you just use a tube of sealant?

Looks like dropping the pan will then entail removing old gasket material from the gearbox end. Is there a fluid that'll clean it off, or is it a gentle but thorough scraping job? Looks like there isn't a gasket for the sump as such, but a sealant..Is there a specific spec, or will the local motor factors just point to something on the shelf?

Sorry about the questions, but as the gearbox is now empty, and i'm not confident about refitting the old bung as its hardly likely to provide an efficient seal, i'm effectively up the ctreek without a paddle. I can't even get somewhere to pass the job on anymore, so I may as well be armed with all the info!

[NiftyNev]

If you disconnect exhaust use a new flange gasket. transmission has a sealant as far as I know.

Nev

[mickey]

Thanks for that Nev. I'll crawl underneath and look for the dipstick connecting bolt in a while. I've already done some pre surgical investigations and it looks as though I can get a 10mm socket to all the sump nuts except for about three which are obstructed by the prop shaft. I can just get a ring spanner over them, but because of the lip, its going to be a little touch n go as to wether I start rounding them off too! I really don't think i'd be able to cope with unbolting anything else..I need two days to psyche myself up to greasing the wheel stops..This is overload already..

The exhaust bits i'll get from Roughtrax, but i'm already sure its gonna be a helluva job to get that zaust off..The front section is original, but looks as if the rust has welded everything together pretty well.

The bit that concearns me most, is getting the old sealant off cleanly, and how much to put on the new sump when I come to putting it together again..I can imagine the stuff oozing out like jam from a doughnut and going round me gearbox..If I don't put enough on, its gonna leak..But how does anyone describe "just the right amount?"

I suppose the ols sump is going to be pretty messy when it comes off, and the housing is going to be covered in Dextron too..If I just rag it over, then apply new gasket sealant to Tony's sump pan before bolting it all back together, will that be enough do you think?

In reply to Bio's earlier queiry re filters..Yes, I believe there is a gauze filter in the 3 ltr box, but I ain't going anywhere near that!

[mickey]

Ok, daft question time again, seeing as Tony's sump has arrived safely and i'm poised for action.

I've got a tube of silicone sealant. Tony recommended RTV, but was given a tube of black gunk by the motorfactor man with the assurance it was "the kiddy". No mention of it being RTV, but a quick Google, and I now understand RTV to be now't more magical than room temperature vulcanising, which this gear is.

Right, the sump is a roasting tray. The nut holes are set on a slight ridge 10mm across and 1mm high, either side of which lies a flat lip.

Now, if I run the sealant around the middle, its gonna ooze down the holes, so i'm guessing that ain't the best place for it? Would it then be easier to run a bead around the transmission case, then squash it all together? It states on the tube that it needs 30 mins setting time before pressing the surface together, then a further 24 hrs before its "cured", before which, the car cannot be driven.

[mickey]

Right, looks like i'll have to just guess the amount of RTV sealant

Its peeing down right now, which is giving me some more "research" and less "doing" time, which may not be a bad thing.

The more I look underneath, the more I'm getting convinced The sump pan ain't ever gonna wriggle out between the exhaust and the prop shaft.

Getting the zaust off is going to be difficult, I can see that already. As for the prop, well, I didn't really want to be dealing with that...but....is it really as simple as undoing the four bolts, swinging it out of the sump's way, then just doing them up again, hand tight when i've put the prop back in place?

[BUSHWHACKER]

Just run a bead of sealant around the inner edge of the raised part of the pan where the bolt holes are. (the 10mm wide bit)
Before you drop the front propshaft, paint/scratch match marks on the two mating flanges so that it's fitted in the exact same position, so there's no vibration when in 4WD.

It doesn't need 24 hours, I done mine on a saturday afternoon and filled with fluid the next morning and has been fine.
Make sure the inside of the pan is spotless and bone dry before re-fitting.

[mickey]

Thanks for that bushwhacker. The sealant stuff was giving me cause for concearn i'll admit. Mostly due to finding a website that dealt with an auto trans sump replacement, [not surf] that stated not to apply too much RTV otherwise you could be looking at an expensive rebuild..huh! Mind you, the other 3459 websites I looked at didn't say as much..that one just grabbed my attention.

Regarding the front propshaft, I was just figuring on unbolting the four mounting nuts on the front, then swinging it aside or dropping it down whatever..I'm assuming it'll either go on correctly, or upside down? So if I just mark it bottom for bottom, that would be good enough, or am I looking at it with naive simplicity?

Asking all these questions is getting a little embarrasing now, and I sense that maybe some have lost patience with me already, thinking maybe, "for crying out loud Mickey, just get on with it!" I'm just really no good at unbolting things, and really bad at putting unbolted bits back on! I have done a lot of searches, and i'm not relishing the thought of getting the front exhaust off and back on..Warrior stated in a thread that he resorted to sawing his off and then welding it up afterwards!

Can anyone tell me..Will that transmission sump come off the 3ltr without first having to remove the front section of exhaust? Tony's sump also had four magnets in it, so i'm guessing mine will too? Is there any logic in putting my four into the replacement sump [and yes, I did read the landcruiser thread on an Australian website that mentioned a magnet coming loose and being ground to pieces...scary stuff these searches!]..

Ta for all the advise to date..I promise i'll not try changing the auto box oil again for a while!