Brake Failure

[Elvz]

I thought that I ought to mention that one of my Surfs was involved in a fairly serious accident on Tuesday morning which may have occurred due to partial brake failure.

At first I assumed that the accident was due to driver error but today we discovered that although the car appears to have good brakes and it passed an MOT 9 weeks ago, the brakes are almost useless at speeds above 40mph.

So far we havent determined the cause of this failure but the reason I am mentioning this incident now is that it isnt obvious that there is anything wrong with the system unless you need to brake hard.

It might be worth trying an emergency stop next time youre driving to see if your Surf actually does stop.

[Ems and Jim]

Hi Elvz,
Thanks for the warning.... did the brakes just fail without warning or what ?

Thanks,

Jim

[Elvz]

Like I said the car seems to have good brakes and it stops okey driving normally but it doesnt stop in anything like the expected distance when you brake hard at over 40mph.

[davie]

is it abs if so its probably a fault with that other wise you would have noticed alot sooner

[TonyN]

Elvz, look down by where the brake pipes run between the fuel tank and the chissis rails, this is usually full of mud or crap, and I've had to replace the lines on my pickup there. Its been mentioned a few times on US websites, the brake line corrodes, and a good hard stomp will burst the corroded part.

This will only leave you with front brakes as its a dual circuit, but will catch you out with extra travel and less braking power if it happens quick.

[marky]

Also all those who go offroad mud is often a contributor of brake failure. as the rear drums tend to fill up with mud or muddy water. if you try the handbrake you may notice it comes out all the way. remove rear drums & remove dirt either with an airline or paintbrush. then readjust.

[TonyN]

Also all those who go offroad mud is often a contributor of brake failure. as the rear drums tend to fill up with mud or muddy water. if you try the handbrake you may notice it comes out all the way. remove rear drums & remove dirt either with an airline or paintbrush. then readjust.

hehe, I gave up on my pickup, rear brakes where always crap, never used to bother in the end, both of our Surfs have just had the rear drums cleaned and handbrake cable adjusted, to make the hand brake work again. The bowden cable in the handbrake seems to unwind a little and go slack the first couple of times it gets really muddy.

Halved the pedal travel getting the rear working again on Lindas black truck, been crap since Norfolk.

Discs are the only way to go.

[Elvz]

I spent this morning playing with the Surf... The actual distance it took the car to stop from 50mph was well over 120 Metres on a dry road but when I took it back to Universal Motors and they put it on the rolling road ... IT STILL PASSED THE MOT TEST!

This is partly because there is no data on the official brake efficiency charts for Surfs and even if there was a vehicle only needs to achieve 50% of the official figure to pass.

The fault was corrosion in the Load Sensing Valve which allowed the rear brakes to operate but was limiting the amount of pressure that could be applied to them.

Tony is right about the Toyota drum brakes.... Discs are definitely the way to go

[da SLUG man]

i find that mine are absolute $hite when they're wet (eg, after a ford)

[rubblebags]

Elvz
I trust you came out of this all right (not hurt that is ).

Geoff.

[Hilux]

brakes

Hi ELvz
Have you checked that the vaccum pump is working OK, the "impellors" may be worn down and not produceing enough vaccum at speed. l think they were about £27 + vat last time l had to replace them.

[Elvz]

Thanks for the thought Geof but I wasn't driving the Surf; it was a pool car. I'm still not very happy about this accident happening as a result of a mechanical defect in a company car which has been very well maintained by any standard. Luckily, no one involved in the accident was hurt, but if there had been passengers travelling in the rear seats of the other car they could easily have been killed as the speed of impact was quite high.

...and nope Bob the brake failure had nothing to do with the vacuum pump. When the car reached 100,000km early last year it was fitted with a new Lucas alternator and vacuum pump. At the same time it received a major brake & suspension overhaul.

The rotors for the vacuum pump are Toyota Part 29331-56070 and cost £13.15 +VAT each; the '89-'91 cars use four and the '91-'94 cars with the later type of alternator use three.

[Guest]

I spent this morning playing with the Surf... The actual distance it took the car to stop from 50mph was well over 120 Metres on a dry road but when I took it back to Universal Motors and they put it on the rolling road ... IT STILL PASSED THE MOT TEST!

This is partly because there is no data on the official brake efficiency charts for Surfs and even if there was a vehicle only needs to achieve 50% of the official figure to pass.

The fault was corrosion in the Load Sensing Valve which allowed the rear brakes to operate but was limiting the amount of pressure that could be applied to them.

Tony is right about the Toyota drum brakes.... Discs are definitely the way to go

Elvz.

One thing I have noticed on my Surf since changing the front brake pads is that the brake fade is much worse than on the original Japanese pads. I presume that the Milners pads are a much softer compound than the Toyota ones. It means that the braking is much better normally however you don't want to have to brake hard having just come down a long hill holding the car on the brakes. I'm going to be changing the rear shoes this week so it will be interesting to see if it gets any worse.

Glad you found the fault though. I used to have a Volvo 360 company car that had an intermittent total brake failure. It took the garage a number of times to fix it - eventually it was something to do with the master cylinder that only happened occasionally. I know it's not the same as your one, however it just goes to show that even the supposedly safest make of car can have really nasty (and scary) problems.

Cheers

[Dunno]

i find that mine are absolute $hite when they're wet (eg, after a ford)

Mine is exactly the same Matt, every time i go through a ford I have problems with mine........ Its frightening!! but they do dry at quick.

Paul

[Malenibo]

I was talking with one of the guys that carries out the SVA test. He said there is a load sensing valve that makes sure the front brakes come on slightly before the rears. This valve is prone to seizure and can adversly effect the braking prefomance. If it has seized halfway open it can bring the rear brakes in first and thats when the vehicle could become unstable.