Prop shaft Universal Joints on LN130

[ro80rob]

So
I have the drive train vibration that starts around 40MPH. It occurs all the time above that speed. I want to change the prop shaft universal joints (UJs), but all the info says that 3 of the joints are the same (front of front shaft and the two in the rear shaft), but the 'wide angle' joint on the front shaft at the transfer box is different. That joint doesn't seem to be available from the alternative suppliers.
So
Will I need to change that one?
Does it usually go (I'd have thought it was a prime candidate having a large articulation)?
Where can I get one of these from or is it a dealer only item?

Any suggestions?

Cheers... Rob.

[Darren]

when I had a similsr vibration it was only one UJ (front of rear shaft) and when crawling underneath and twisting the propshaft (in neutral) it was easy to see the movement in the broke one. I'd suggest have a look and establish which is bust rather than trying to change all of them.
Darren

[Maverick]

I normally change both on the rear propshaft, after all you might just as well whilst its off. I seem to be going through a set every two years, but as yet have not had to change the front shaft UJs (they very rarely get used). I use either Milners or Roughtrax (Roughtrax appear better quality but cost a little bit more).

[ro80rob]

So I still have a vibration -> Update and more help please.

Well
I had the two rear UJs replaced. They were originals, having done 160k km.
I still have the vibration. It starts over 40mph.
I've had a feel around the front prop. There is light (I mean small) play between the double joint. If I watch carefully and move the shaft, I can definitely see some rotational slop through the joint to the flange on the transfer case. It's not much, but there. I can also get a smal amount of lateral movement if I try.
I did a little testing on the A55 on the way home this evening. I noted that the vibration does not vary when I am under load or not. It feels relatively severe when you drive. It seems too fast for a wheel bearing, and I've given them a good shake and can't feel anything untoward, tho maybe I should jack it up and spin the wheels.
Could it be the differential. As to the rear, as I say there is no difference under load or not, so I am discounting (correctly?) the rear diff. There is a sticker on the back of it that says 'Only LSD Oil'. I guess that means its a ltd slip diff already. I believe that is a good thing, though not if they go wrong more easily (I don't do any real off roading, just pull my boat across a beach 10 times a year).
I know nothing of the front diff.
So, what to do. I want this sorted. I am prepared to get an exchange front prop (I was advised by Milners when I bought the rear UJs that this was the fix for the front prop, and not to try and change the double UJ), though I note that Milner off road only list a 'manual' front prop and my Surf's an auto. Is it the same?
Also, what is LSD oil? I thought it would be normal gear oil. Perhaps I should drop the diff oil to see if there was any untoward particulates in there, and replace it with new oil anyway.

Cheers... Rob.

[Sancho]

As long as you're driving in 2wd the front prop won't be moving, surely.

I presume you know your wheels are properly balanced?

[nero279]

LSD oil has specific additives in, no idea if non-LSD oil in a Limited slip diff would cause the problem's you describe. I know LSD oil is listed on www.difflock.com , or i think TonyN or Linda posted that they would sell it aswell www.4x4toys.co.uk

[ro80rob]

As long as you're driving in 2wd the front prop won't be moving, surely.

I presume you know your wheels are properly balanced?

I'm convinced its not wheel balance. Its too quick/high in frequency. The big wheels and tyres are turning relatively slowly.
The front prop rotates all the time, Its directly connected to the front wheels through the front diff. It just isn't actively driven by the transmission unless I select 4WD. Its spun as many times as the rear shaft in fact, just not loaded. A question I could ask is how much 4wd use has the car had. In my case, I use it almost not at all. I have covered less than 2 miles in 4WD on soft surfaces so far, that is all. As to the previous owners, I don't know. It goes in and out of 4WD fine. I've owned it less than 12 months.

Cheers... Rob.

[nero279]

2nd gen surfs have an Auto-Disconnecting Differential, ADD, the front prop shouldn't be turning in 2wd, certainly not quick enough to cause any vibrations.

I honestly couldn't say whether it turns at all at speed, but it's certainly not being driven either by the front wheels/diff or transfer case, so if it does turn i can only imagine it would be very slowly as it'd only be air resistance causing it to turn.

[Sancho]

I'm convinced its not wheel balance. Its too quick/high in frequency. The big wheels and tyres are turning relatively slowly.
The front prop rotates all the time, Its directly connected to the front wheels through the front diff. It just isn't actively driven by the transmission unless I select 4WD. Its spun as many times as the rear shaft in fact, just not loaded. A question I could ask is how much 4wd use has the car had. In my case, I use it almost not at all. I have covered less than 2 miles in 4WD on soft surfaces so far, that is all. As to the previous owners, I don't know. It goes in and out of 4WD fine. I've owned it less than 12 months.

Cheers... Rob.

The ADD should disconnect the prop from the wheels (or rather the diff, and hence the prop, from the wheels) when in 2wd, I think.

[ro80rob]

The ADD should disconnect the prop from the wheels (or rather the diff, and hence the prop, from the wheels) when in 2wd, I think.

Hello
I stand corrected. Remebering my old Lada Niva perhaps.
However.
I can't find any info on this ADD (Automatic Drive Disconnection?) in my Haynes. I guess I can check if I have this by lifting up one front wheel and seeing if when I turn it, the prop shaft rotates. If this is the case, why can I buy aftermarket freewheel hubs. Seems to be unnecessary if my diff can do it for me?
I guess the ultimate 'quick check' on my vibration issue is to remove the front prop shaft and drive the car?
I'll bet the bolts are tight! The rear ones were!!.

Cheers... Rob.

[nero279]

Stick it in 2wd and park, and try rotating the prop, should turn fairly freely.

[ro80rob]

Stick it in 2wd and park, and try rotating the prop, should turn fairly freely.

It don't turn at all. That is what I have done this evening whilst trying to evaluate the free play in the front prop double UJ. It feels locked (via the diff) to the front wheels.
For it to be free now, implies not a clever trick by the prop, but some simple mechanical linkage/electrical actuator into the front diff to bring about some sort of drive disconnection doesn't it?. ADD (to my way of thinking) should employ something like an auto free wheeling hub built into the diff, to transmit drive when its provided from the transfer box, or freewheel when not.
Is there an electrical control cable/solenoid actuator you know of to the front diff?
Maybe I should check it with the ignition on to make sure power is applied (or not) to the actuator on the diff?

Cheers... Rob.

[nero279]

the way I understand it is that it's some kind of solenoid/vacuum operated sliding collar between the diff and the wheels on the driveshafts? i'll have a look for a btter explanation of it in the morning.

freewheeling hubs stop the front wheels turning the driveshafts, so putting less wear on the cv joints, which can be useful when lifting the ifs suspension on the front of the surf. as the cvs run at higher angles with a lifted truck and suffer from wear quickly.

if you can't turn the front prop by hand in 2wd I would say you got a problem, either with the t/case or add.

[nero279]

do any of these help?

http://outgoing.bauchan.org/toyota_s...add_system.pdf
http://outgoing.bauchan.org/toyota_s...s/add_auto.jpg
http://outgoing.bauchan.org/toyota_s...dd_diagram.jpg
http://outgoing.bauchan.org/toyota_s.../add_hoses.jpg

[ro80rob]

do any of these help?

http://outgoing.bauchan.org/toyota_s...add_system.pdf
http://outgoing.bauchan.org/toyota_s...s/add_auto.jpg
http://outgoing.bauchan.org/toyota_s...dd_diagram.jpg
http://outgoing.bauchan.org/toyota_s.../add_hoses.jpg

Cheers for these links.

I'll print it out and take a good look under the bonnet this evening.

More later... Rob.