Tyre balancing using weights inside the tyre

[Morr]

Having followed with great interest the various threads over on yotatech on adding weights inside the tyres to balance em (and the threads covering golf balls, equal, centramic balancers etc), I thought I'd give it a go.
I did this mainly because of the issue regarding the lug-centric balancing requirements, problem being that in Ireland its almost impossible to find a shop with the right equipment. (I have found one place with the right gear, but I'm unimpressed with their other work, so I'd rather find an alternative solution)

Anyway, before I started I had a bit of vibration around 50mph, but other wise OK, I then added approx 4.5 ounces of fishing weights (round lead balls of about 1/8" & 1/4" diameter).

Since then, on some journeys its smooth as glass at all speeds, but other times I get a steering wobble anywhere between 35mph and 55mph. The wobble ranges from slight to severe, over a speed range anywhere from 5 to 10mph.
As the weights obviously drop when slowing down (can hear them fall at around 5mph) each segment of a journey is different, some perfectly smooth, some not so.


I reckon I may have to adjust the quantity of weights in the tyre, but I can't figure out, am I likely to need more? or less?

Anybody over this side of the globe ever tried this method of balancing?

[TheWolfCub]

Hi Morr,

I've not tried the balancing soultion that you describe, but I have noticed similar behaviour with my Surf re the vibration, i.e. some journeys - smooth as glass, on others I get vibration around 80-85mph.

Could it be the particular road surface that's causing the problem rather than the balancing?

Rob

[mart 870]

If the tyre is balanced with the right equipment and it is used properly then a computer wheel balance should give you no problems. Big heavy 4x4 tyres are far more sensitive to balance problems - muck stuck on the inside of the rim will give trouble and although i dont fit many cheaper brands of tyre now, always used to find that the cheap stuff and remoulds in particular were always a challenge to balance. Tyres with a deep tread from new stuffer more from balance troubles when they wear down - the tyre weighs less which in turn puts the balance out.

A frield of mine who used to work in India said to balance wheels they would put a small amount of sand in a tyre and said they never had any trouble! I dont think i`d want to trust that method myself though lol

Sadly it`s so easy to become a tyre fitter with little or no training (i`m a qualified mechanic and have been a tyre fitter for past 15 years and have had the dubious pleasure of fitting and balancing the tyres for a certain other make of 4x4`s magazine tyre tests more than once) and the quality of workmanship is often pretty low with lots of people being able to fit tyres but cant do much more than that so if you do find yourself a good one hold onto him, he will know what he`s doing and talking about and you`ll be able to trust them.

P.s. If its done properly and with care Surf wheels can be done with just a standard cone attachment on a balancer, i know this because i balanced my new Bridgestone 682`s (265/70x15) myself and they are fine above 100mph.

[Morr]

....Could it be the particular road surface that's causing the problem rather than the balancing?

Rob

I wish it was as simple as that, but I've experienced both the smooth, and the vibration, on different journeys along the same section of motorway.
I've been trying to see if anything in particular has any effect, and all I've got so far is that if I pull away from stationary pretty sharpish (as is my normal habit ) the chances of worse vibration appear to be much greater, slow take-offs seem to cause less problems.

[Morr]

.....they would put a small amount of sand in a tyre and said they never had any trouble! I dont think i`d want to trust that method myself though lol

I've heard before that that actually works very well, but don't fancy the abrasiveness of all that sand on my tyres and wheels.

.....Sadly it`s so easy to become a tyre fitter with little or no training (i`m a qualified mechanic and have been a tyre fitter for past 15 years......

Hence the reason I don't want to use the place with the Hawkea adaptors, had to use them for my camber adjust and was less than impressed with them. Gonna get my own camber gauge and already have access to tracking gauges so I'll be able to do my own soon

..... If its done properly and with care Surf wheels can be done with just a standard cone attachment on a balancer

I never had balance problems on my 2nd Gen, and don't know if the lug-centric issue is confined to the 3rd Gens. I've had them pretty good on both prior and current tyres using a standard cone machine, but I'm just trying to get them that bit better and rid myself of the last bit of vibration.

I think I'll try adding another ounce and see how it goes...

[da SLUG man]

have you tried a commercial tyre fitters?... they may have an "on hub" ballancer?


but i might have dreamed it!

[Morr]

have you tried a commercial tyre fitters?... they may have an "on hub" ballancer?


but i might have dreamed it!

You mean as in on the car? I've always heard that was possible and obviously better as it would balance the entire rotating assy, wheel, disc etc. but I've never seen it or heard of anywhere that does it.

[Koi]

As a thought, when I had the 31" BFG muds fitted to my other Surf the owner of the garage told the fitter to spin them by hand and not use the machine.
I asked why he does this and told me that the high RPM of the machine on large deep treaded tyres can actually put them out of shape. So you over balance them, fit more weights than is required and cause wheel wobble. So they were balanced by a gentle spin of the hand, I had no wheel wobble at all.

[Phatboy]

Tyre weights

commercial tyre shops now use a bag of silicone, they throw 1 in when fitting the tyre, the bag splits at speed and the silicone sticks to the inside casing where the weight needs to be. you could try 1 of them.

[TonyN]

This is what's highly recommended for big tyres...

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/e...ndexmain.shtml

There are others, but some powders can get damp and not work, but they work on the same principal.

A worn big tyre will flex the tread at high RPM's sometimes you just gotta put up with a little vibration once you get to 33" or bigger.

[AndyLala]

That is very interesting... anyone doing it over here...?

[Morr]

An update....

So initially they did not seem to work too well.

A few weeks later I added 1/4" wheel spacers to overcome minor clearance problems due to the 285/75 tyres.
Fitting of the spacers did not appear to alter the balancing issue.

In the time since then the balance issue diminished, why it diminished I don't know, perhaps it was the tyres (which were new when I inserted the weights) settling in.

Being a lazy git, I never experimented with increasing/decreasing the amount of weights as I intended. I was reasonably content with the naturally occurring improvement, and learned to live with the slight remaining wobble/vibration.
As it did not seem to be affecting tyre wear I left it alone.
BTW those BFG's are excellent, after nearly 20,000Kms they show virtually zero visible wear!

Recently I was swapping wheels around and took a notion to try leaving the spacers out - Wow! All balance issues disappeared!

I've drawn a few conclusions from all this...
1) The weights in the tyre really do work.
I'm assuming that initially my tyres were not seated 100% correctly so the weights could not do their job until the tyres settled. After the tyres had settled it was the spacers which caused the ongoing imbalance.

2) Cast wheel are probably not a good idea, not offering truly parallel faces they can exacerbate any balance issues.

3) To run larger tyres on your 3rd Gen along with a suspension or body lift, properly machined spacers or different wheels are essential. (now I'll have to resume my search for a set of LC Amazon rims )

[davemaxx]

the tyres behaving difrently on diffrent days on the same stretch of road might be down to road temperature and tyre pressure riseing,

i used to use a stuff called ULTRASEAL on high performance motorcycles, it was invented by nasa for the moon buggy but never used because they changed the wheels to ally and no tyres, but apparently the services, police ect, have used it for years, (personaly i've never seen a police veichle or fire engin with a puncture)

you can get a write up from a web search, but basically it has very good propertys, aids ballance, keeps inside of tyres cool maintaing the best preasure and reducing wear, virtually puncture proofs the tyre.

the only drawback is its very expensive.

i wouldn't want shot rolling around the inside of my tyres wearing them from the inside out as well as the outside in.