Manual Transmission/Clutch Noise

[Panrixx]

Hi all,

I have just purchased a 1995 Surf SSRX 3.0L Diesel (1KZ-TE engine) with manual gearbox. I have previously owned a 1994 auto but decided I would prefer a manual for towing and to negotiate the ups and downs of the Cornish landscape.

It was a private sale and when I saw the Surf I realised that both inner CV boots where split and would need attention, so I negotiated a £400 discount to cover the work. One boot has a small slit and is flicking oil/grease around the immediate area. The other boot is completed in two halves and is totally dry in the immediate vicinity.

However, having driven it home (some 200+ miles) I realised that the transmission was much noisier than the automatic I had owned and the noise seemed to change tone as the speed increased. The noise appears to come in as the revs increase in each gear and is more pronounced in the higher gears. As I write this it has dawned on me that it may be more speed related than gear related. I have not yet checked it over fully but hoped someone could point me in the right direction as to where to look first, as there are so many possibilities.

My other major concern is the fact that I now realise that the louder than normal 'diesel'/'tappet' noise at idle is, infact, transmission related. At idle the noise sounds like a loud/noisy diesel engine running. However, when the clutch is depressed the noise quitens down to what I would call a normal Surf disel engine level.

I have read about the Toyota dual-mass flywheel and wondered if this could be the culprit?

Any help you can give on either of the points mentioned would be gratefully received.

Many thanks

[Vagrant No2]

The speed noise maybe due to differnt tyre make then your old Surf , had that on a car before .

If dipping the clutch at idle reduces the idle noise then it does sound like a transmission related noise , as you say may have had the dual mass flywheel replaced for a solid type which some have commented on here as giving noise from transmission .

[Panrixx]

The speed noise maybe due to differnt tyre make then your old Surf , had that on a car before .

If dipping the clutch at idle reduces the idle noise then it does sound like a transmission related noise , as you say may have had the dual mass flywheel replaced for a solid type which some have commented on here as giving noise from transmission .

Thanks for your response.

The car has supposedly done just over 56,000 miles and if this is the case I think it would pobably still have the original flywheel. The noise at idle appears to come from forward of the actual gearbox, thats why I think it maybe clutch/flywheel reated.

Thanks again

[Vagrant No2]

It may be a 'chattering' clutch release bearing . Previous owner may have riden the clutch pedal and overheated/worn the release bearing making it noisey .

[bubba]

I too have this noise,i've been told by several people that it's the thrust bearing,i have just fitted a brand new clutch and solid flywheel and the noise started after that.Is there anything that can be done for it? I fitted the clutch and flywheel myself so therefore don't fancy having to drop the gearbox back out again.

[exmee46]

If the noise disappears when you dip the clutch its more likely to be chatter in the gearbox. Have you checked the oil level? Esp since you say there is general transmission noise.

The dual mass flywheels do seem to give up eventually - depends how hard they have been abused (the springs break), but since they are attached to the crankshaft, dipping the clutch is unlikely to have much effect. Cheaper remedy is to replace with a solid flywheel and standard clutch (with springs). There is a thread on this.

Release bearing is another possibility but you would expect that to be worse when you dip the clutch. No real way of telling for sure without dropping the box and inspecting everything - or wait for it to get a lot worse so you can pinpoint it.

Kev

[Uplander]

Hi all,

I have just purchased a 1995 Surf SSRX 3.0L Diesel (1KZ-TE engine) with manual gearbox. I have previously owned a 1994 auto but decided I would prefer a manual for towing and to negotiate the ups and downs of the Cornish landscape.

It was a private sale and when I saw the Surf I realised that both inner CV boots where split and would need attention, so I negotiated a £400 discount to cover the work. One boot has a small slit and is flicking oil/grease around the immediate area. The other boot is completed in two halves and is totally dry in the immediate vicinity.

However, having driven it home (some 200+ miles) I realised that the transmission was much noisier than the automatic I had owned and the noise seemed to change tone as the speed increased. The noise appears to come in as the revs increase in each gear and is more pronounced in the higher gears. As I write this it has dawned on me that it may be more speed related than gear related. I have not yet checked it over fully but hoped someone could point me in the right direction as to where to look first, as there are so many possibilities.

My other major concern is the fact that I now realise that the louder than normal 'diesel'/'tappet' noise at idle is, infact, transmission related. At idle the noise sounds like a loud/noisy diesel engine running. However, when the clutch is depressed the noise quitens down to what I would call a normal Surf disel engine level.

I have read about the Toyota dual-mass flywheel and wondered if this could be the culprit?

Any help you can give on either of the points mentioned would be gratefully received.

Many thanks

Can we go back to the start, please ?

There is a probability (based on above report by you) that most of the problems lie within the dry cv joint situation, get a second opinion from someone who can sit next to you in the car whilst you drive it in left hand lock and right hand lock and replace these joints. Road test car. Pinpoint if clutch is at fault/ next on list. Drop box/ clutch out and replace where necessary pressure plate, clutch plate, spigot bearing (as applicable) The flywheel needs to be checked for any damage and wear to surface. It maybe at this stage you discover the clutch release bearing is rough /noisy. Also check the spring fingers of the diaphragm for damage. Also check the release fork and coat with grease prior to re-fitting. How long ? half a day for cv joints and half a day for clutch should be plenty, beware the gearbox is maybe heavier than you think. You will need clutch centring boss / tool or diy piece of correct diameter.

Reckon this should quieten the noises !

[Bikenuts]

This may or may not be a help, but I had no untoward noises at all before my DMF failed.

[Panrixx]

'Diesel Type Noise' at Idle

I have now eliminated the CV joints as I have removed both shafts, cleaned, inspected, replaced driver's side CV joint, regreased and renewed all CV boots. At the same time I measured the shaft end float at the bronze bushes and they were well within the specified tolerances.

The louder than usual 'diesel type' noise/clatter only happens at idle. When the motor is first started there are no unusual noises but this is probably due to the fact that the engine is running at a speed greater than idle when on choke. Once everything has warmed up the noise appears at tick over and can be reduced dramatically by raising the revs from around 600rpm to around 900rpm.

I can hear the thrust bearing slightly but this is not the cause. The oil pressure (hot, cold and at idle) are normal and no different to my earlier 1994 3.0L Auto Surf. Using a large screwdriver as a stethoscope I have found that the noise appears the loudest from the area of the bellhousing. I am fairly sure it has nothing to do with the engine itself.

I know I will need to remove the gearbox to inspect the clutch/flywheel/thrust bearing but before I do I wondered if anyone has had the same problem and found the cause. Also, as everything seems ok above idle speed I'm wondering if it will be alright to put off any repair work until I have used the vehicle for a trip from Cornwall to Oxford and then onto Surrey and back again?

Any comments will be gratefully received.

[mart 870]

If it makes the noise at tickover with the truck in neutral and the sound goes when you depress the clutch then it sounds like the clutch release bearings. I had a brand new Merc Sprinter van and the release bearings were noisey from day one right up until the clutch was changed at over 100000 miles, it never gave me any problems, although i could never hear it when i was moving. Another Sprinter i had, had a noisey box after a while and that sounded like a touring car wiht the bearings whining away.

[Panrixx]

If it makes the noise at tickover with the truck in neutral and the sound goes when you depress the clutch then it sounds like the clutch release bearings........

Hi mart 870

Thanks for your suggestion but I am fairly sure it is not the thrust bearing as I can hear it (faintly) in the background, completely seperately from the noise/clatter I have described.

Thanks again

[mart 870]

Hi mart 870

Thanks for your suggestion but I am fairly sure it is not the thrust bearing as I can hear it (faintly) in the background, completely seperately from the noise/clatter I have described.

Thanks again

No worries, i hope you get it sorted and it`s not too expensive!

[Vagrant No2]

Idle at 600rpm seems a bit low to me , I would check the manual for recommended idle spped . I personally would have the idle at between 700 - 850 rpm . This noise maybe because idle is to low ? and everything is shaking about to much.

[Steve Letts]

Would appreciate hearing if you found what was causing the chatter in your surf as mine has just started doing the same thing. If you sit with your foot on the clutch at idle it's nice and quiet, release the pressure on the clutch pedal and it starts chattering away. mine done 100,000km, which is about 60,000miles, so similar milage to yours.

[Panrixx]

Idle Chatter!

Would appreciate hearing if you found what was causing the chatter in your surf as mine has just started doing the same thing. If you sit with your foot on the clutch at idle it's nice and quiet, release the pressure on the clutch pedal and it starts chattering away. mine done 100,000km, which is about 60,000miles, so similar milage to yours.

Steve,

I will be removing the gearbox within the next few weeks to check out the clutch, thrust bearing and, more importantly, the flywheel. As soon as I can identify the problem I will let you know.

Regards