Front Differential - (side gear shaft)

[andycook]

Discovered that the side-gear-shaft on Drivers side of 4runner seems to have a lot of play in it. This is a UK4runner with ADD.
When I grab the drive shaft, as well as small play in direction of drive shaft, there is major loosness in up-down and side-to-side - the looseness is where the side-gear-shaft goes into the front diff (NOT wheel end).

I assume this isnt normal! - as otherside on ADD isnt the same,
is it some worn bearing?
no evidence of oil leak

Reason I found it was still trying to get to bottom of vibration/shaking when driving.

is this an easy thing to fix?

I did a search on this forum - but never found a conclusion to the problem

cheers in advance
Andy

[andycook]

anyone?

[marky]

TONY is not on as he maybe the one to ask. THE BRITS ARE ON tv ooooooohhh KYLIE is on in a bit

[da SLUG man]

does it still do it with 4wd engaged?

do you mean half shaft?... the bit between diff and wheel with rubber boots each end?

[JimL]

I've seen others mention it many times before, normal? .... dont know

here

here

here

[andycook]

havent checked it in 4wd yet

its the bit of diff assembly that has 6 bolts on it - flange thing. Which the Inner CV joint flange bolts to.
The CV joint itself seems ok.

but the bit which is wobbly (side gear shaft) actually goes into the front diff. Drivers side. so its NOT the CV joints or the bushes in the hub.

thanbks JimL - ive seems some of those posts, but no conclusion on the matter. it doesnt seem right that the thing should have that much up-down and side-side play.

[TonyN]

It does have a little play, how much I can tell you till I get home on Sunday night.

The shaft is held in place by the spider gear in the diff, and only runs though a bush and seal in the diff casing.

the seal usually starts to leak when the bush gets worn enough.

[andycook]

cheers Tony - I look forward to your reply

I am seeing 5-10mm play in the thing, but havent measured it, so not precise, but it was a fair amount. But no oil leaks.

[Steadi]

Drive shaft

I'm still chasing a similar problem, transmission noise on front offside between 30 and 45. Has anyone out there got some schematics about how the drive shaft connects to the diff... havnt found a good workshop manual yet.

Mike

[TonyN]

you need to 2-3mm of play in axial direction, meaning in and out, but up and down play is down to the oil seal a little, as it supports the shaft and worn thrust washers in the diff side gears.

To be honest, I'd replace the seal in the diff housing that the shaft runs though, this will lose a lot of the the play, but I wouldn't worry about the other, theres nothing there to make any noise, as long as your diff oil is OK, its not worth worring about. If its leaking oil then its time to change the seal, if no oil is coming out, and you have diff oil then the oil seal is still doing its job.

Rebuilding diffs is a long winded and involved job, not to be taken lightly.

If your really worried, fit some manual hubs, this will stop the front drive shafts and diff side gears turning altogether.

Any noise is usually the bushes where the outer CV shaft runs though the hub, or knackered CV's

[Steadi]

Noise

Thanks Tony

great schematic.. at last i can see whats going on.

dealer finally got round to looking at the truck, and is stumped. Took it to my local and very surf freindly Jemca Toyota dealer, The Service manager took a test drive himself and thinks its the wheel bearing, although there is no excessive play or rumble.

He suggested I book in and they will lift all four wheels off the ground and run the drivetrain in 4wd and have a listnen from underneath. Sounds like a health and safety nightmare but maybe a good way of pinpointing the noise as long as they dont get too near that spinning tyre.

May use them to change that bearing if their book time is low, at least they seem to know what is going on.

Gotta be worth seeing all four wheels turning on thet car lift, I remember a film called 'Ferris Beuler's day off'....... !

[TonyN]

Gotta be worth seeing all four wheels turning on thet car lift, I remember a film called 'Ferris Beuler's day off'....... !

hehe, Classic film!

[sim]

[QUOTE=Steadi]

He suggested I book in and they will lift all four wheels off the ground and run the drivetrain in 4wd and have a listnen from underneath. Sounds like a health and safety nightmare but maybe a good way of pinpointing the noise as long as they dont get too near that spinning tyre.


How did you get on, is it fixed. Mine is doing exactly the same and has been off the road since January due to lack of funding after Chrismas, and I dont want to cause any more damage to it. She's now booked in to be fixed but was wondering what the problem is.

[Steadi]

Bad News

Hi Sim

Toyota were talking about 2 to 3 hours to change the bearing at £95 per hour which was out of the question.

They recommended a garage in wandsworth who did the rolling test, I also had a listen underneath and the noise had completely disappeared. We assumed that this was due to no load on the wheel bearings hence no noise and decided to change the bearing but at my risk.

£250 later I picked up the surf and the sodding noise is still there. the only consolation is as its my buisiness vehicle I'll get the VAT and some of the repair money back through my accounts but Im still pretty p****d off with the car.

There has been a lot of confusion about the drive shaft alignment washers, even toyota parts department thaught they had them but apparantly the GEN3 has a different design. Maybe we should have separate GEN3 and GEN4 sections on the forum.

One small point, I got charged £18 and £44 for oil seals I wasnt expecting, if anyone out there knows the GEN3 rolling gear could you let me know if they were really needed?

Anyway I'm completely screwed now, took a risk with the repair and my luck ran out.

Both toyota and the new garage feel that a drive shaft cant make my rumbley howling noise so it must be something to do with the diff, trouble is the Diff is in the middle yet the noise sounds so much louder from the driver's side.

Anybody out there got a secondhand GEN 3 front diff before I get tempted to push this truck over beachy head.

Mike

[TonyN]

Hi Sim

Toyota were talking about 2 to 3 hours to change the bearing at £95 per hour which was out of the question.

They recommended a garage in wandsworth who did the rolling test, I also had a listen underneath and the noise had completely disappeared. We assumed that this was due to no load on the wheel bearings hence no noise and decided to change the bearing but at my risk.

£250 later I picked up the surf and the sodding noise is still there. the only consolation is as its my buisiness vehicle I'll get the VAT and some of the repair money back through my accounts but Im still pretty p****d off with the car.

There has been a lot of confusion about the drive shaft alignment washers, even toyota parts department thaught they had them but apparantly the GEN3 has a different design. Maybe we should have separate GEN3 and GEN4 sections on the forum.

One small point, I got charged £18 and £44 for oil seals I wasnt expecting, if anyone out there knows the GEN3 rolling gear could you let me know if they were really needed?

Anyway I'm completely screwed now, took a risk with the repair and my luck ran out.

Both toyota and the new garage feel that a drive shaft cant make my rumbley howling noise so it must be something to do with the diff, trouble is the Diff is in the middle yet the noise sounds so much louder from the driver's side.

Anybody out there got a secondhand GEN 3 front diff before I get tempted to push this truck over beachy head.

Mike

Have you taken the front drive shafts out and tried it without them? Or even just the drive plates on the end of the hubs?

If you could get it down to me, I'd have a poke around for you.