Surf won't start - possibly ECU?

[Albannach]

Could be the TPS?

[Funky]

Probably not the spill valve...

Cheers Nev, that's pretty much what I needed. I've also had a look at a few other pictures around the net, and the thing the AA man disconnected WAS the spill valve. However, I've done some homework here:

http://www.dquirk.com/images/PDFs/Pr...%20engines.pdf

and if I read it right, it seems that if the spill valve isn't working the engine just won't run, as it pretty much controls the injection process. If you put a voltage across the valve to hold it closed, I think the engine might run, but really badly. Mine runs normally, it's just a bugger to start, and when you select drive it drops so far below normal idle it won't pick up. If it was a carburettor I'd be checking the idle jet. Once you get going, it seems to be normal, although I'm obviously a bit sensitive at the moment!

I'm going to let the AA man off the hook on the spill valve, and look for something else that might have got knocked loose as we fiddled about under the bonnet. Failing that, I'll investigate the throttle position sensor. I'm not exactly sure how to set this though. Has anyone got a handy guide?

I wonder if there's some sort of anti-stall / sub-idle fuel enrichener that's not working properly?

[stormforce]

The tps is just 2 screws you need to slacken off and then twist a bit
either way to what the desired position



SIMPLES

[NiftyNev]

Don't play with the TPS unless you understand how they work.

http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/v...ic.php?t=19390

Nev

[Albannach]

I replaced mine on my 2.4, solved a myriad of small issues. It's a pain in the arse to set up though, took about 10 minutes to change and over an hour to set up properly. But what a difference!

[Funky]

Lastest weirdness.

After leaving "Big Red" overnight to think about things, I tried starting from cold. Cranked forever, but really fast as if it was trying to fire. Eventually fired up, and ran normally. The idle speed seems a bit low - about 700 RPM and I read it should be nearer 850.

Strangely, the issue with selecting drive and reverse seems to have gone - although the revs drop as the 'box shifts and the engine comes on load, they now come back up instantly. The car pulls away normally, although I'm not convinced it's shifting at the same time it used to - it seemed to be revving very high before it shifted into top. I thought at first it was down on power but I think perhaps it was actually in the wrong gear.

Since it's a simple no-cost option, I might as well check the resistances on the TPS. Nobody has touched it, but I'm wondering if the ECU and TPS have not been talking to each other for some time. Now the ECU is working properly maybe it's highlighting that the TPS is out. We shall see, but not until we've been shopping. I think the missus is becoming jealous of my truck!

[Funky]

TPS Readings

Got a chance to put a meter on the TPS - once I'd got the plug off. Thank you Mr Toyota for making an easy job difficult for no reason!

Here's what I got:

Throttle closed:
IDL-E2 - 0.16kΩ should be less than 2.3kΩ so is OK
VC-E2 - 3.8kΩ should be 4-9kΩ, so a bit low
VTA-E2 - 1.14kΩ Should be 0.2 - 0.8kΩ. Way too high.

Throttle fully open:
IDL-E2 - Infinity. OK.
VC-E2 - 3.8kΩ Still a bit low, no change as throttle moved.
VTA-E2 - 2.74kΩ Should be 3.3 - 10. Way too low.

That doesn't seem right. I don't understand why it worked fine before the ECU repair, and if the readings are that far out I'm suprised it works at all. I found some more info at http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/v...958&highlight= so I'll test the voltages at the diagnostic plug tomorrow. That post refers to the 2.4 engine, but I'm assuming the 3.0 is very similar. Can anyone confirm this, and maybe even tell me if the 3.0 TPS is shared by any other (cheaper) cars?

Other things I'm considering are glowplugs not heating, given the starting difficulties. Relay maybe? Is is safe to check the voltage between the glowplug "rail" and earth as I turn the ignition, and what should that voltage be?

If the TPS checks out tomorrow, and the glowplugs are OK, then it can only be the ECU. I'll have a chat with the good doctor and see if he used any alternative components in the repair which might cause these problems.

[stormforce]

my truck was a sod to start today first thing but after that its been ok.when it did finally start up it blew a hell of alot of smoke out the rear end (grey/white smoke)
Rockdrill on here has also had the same problem but today his truck wouldn't start at all plus his astra diesel had trouble starting.
I really need to get mine in the workshop and do some serious service work on it as it hasn't been done properly for a couple of years

[blackpoolsparks]

my truck was a sod to start today first thing but after that its been ok.when it did finally start up it blew a hell of alot of smoke out the rear end (grey/white smoke)
Rockdrill on here has also had the same problem but today his truck wouldn't start at all plus his astra diesel had trouble starting.
I really need to get mine in the workshop and do some serious service work on it as it hasn't been done properly for a couple of years

[NiftyNev]

This is a long shot but worth checking. The 3Ltr pump has a fuel temperature sensor. It's located on side of pump below the spill control valve and has a small gauze filter inside the pump under it. Remove this and check the filter.

Nev

[stormforce]

cheers Nev.Is this on the side nearest the block or the outside nearest the wing.I did put some fuel in the tank back in september beggining of october from one of the breakers and i got a feeling this is when my probs started

[NiftyNev]

Outside of pump.

Nev

[MattF]

What is the condition of the fuel system, i.e: filter, primer/filter head and suchlike?

[Funky]

Everything checks out - still a git to start.

Thanks for all your help on this problem. Here's what I've got after this morning's set of tests:

TPS is set up pretty much spot on. Although the resistances were a bit odd, the voltage at the diagnostic port steps from 0-8v exactly as it should, and the idle pin goes open circuit with less then a millimetre of throttle movement off the stop. Can't find my feeler gauges to check exactly, but it's close enough.

Glow plugs have just under 12v to them when you turn the key, and the relay can be heard clicking. Unless all 4 have failed simultaneously, I'd say they were fine. By the way, it would appear they stay on for longer than the light on the dash would suggest. Don't know how long, as the missus turned the key off before they turned themselves off. Maybe they stay on until the engine starts.

Once started the truck appears to be normal now, at least around the estate. Not tried it on the open road yet. Maybe I just need to rag the pants off it! It certainly has plenty of grunt and revs freely enough, without any particularly obvious smog clouds.

Fuel filter was replaced not long ago. Primer is working fine and goes hard after a pump or two. It won't hurt to change the filter, but this truck was working perfectly before the ECU died. Am I right in thinking the injection pump DRAWS through the filter, or is there an electric backing pump?

Basically, everything is fine but the truck cranks and cranks before eventually starting, getting faster and faster as it cranks. It just sounds like it's really trying but needs a bit more fuel. When my Harley does that it usually needs a bit of choke, but Big Red doesn't have a choke! It does the same when hot, but not for as long. It used to go "Nyr...Nyr...Brummmm" whatever the temperature, now it goes "Nyr...Nyr...Nyr.Nyr.Nyrnyrnyr nyrrrrrbrummmm" when it's hot and the same but much longer when cold. Sooner or later I'm going to flatten the batteries, which are currently fine by the way.

The accusing finger is now pointing back at the ECU, as nothing else has been changed and everything testable has been tested. The ECU contains no fault codes - I just checked - so it thinks it's fine, but I'm not convinced. Maybe one of the fuel maps got programmed onto the chip incorrectly - who knows. It's all magic as far as I'm concerned. Maybe someone can post an Dummies guide on what this box actually does. For example, does it "learn" about fuel quality, temperatures etc, or just pick a pre-set map to suit the conditions as they occur? I ask because a while ago someone offered to "tune" the ECU for fuel economy for me, for a consideration of £35, by setting it to a specific map. I declined his offer, figuring all he could do is reset any fault codes and possibly bugger the thing up totally.

Why put a silly, fragile electronic brain in an off-road truck? Next time I want a small-block Chevy and a Holley 4-barrel carb please.

[BUSHWHACKER]

Who ever told you they could 'tune' the ECU for fuel economy is talking bollox!!