Big End Rebuild recommendations

[Alex O]

Hi,
As per the title really. Suspected big end failure on a 1996 gen 3 3.0 diesel.
Having spent quite a lot of £ on a gearbox rebuild and new head etc. very recently I am not looking to scrap etc.
Also concerned that a used engine may fail in the short term, therefore looking for specialists who can rebuild.

Any recommendations?

Thanks very much
Alex

[bryanisaoldgit]

what makes you think the ends are gone

[Alex O]

You are quite right to ask.

Just the noise and view of the AA man.

However, there was no warning (no gradual increased rattling turning into a knocking), no smoke out of the exhaust, no loss of power, no warning lights (e.g. oil pressure light). The oil is changed every 3k miles and the total mileage is 169,000. I find in hard to believe that the big end bearings have failed but the noise would suggest it. Any thoughts?

Here is the video of the noise:
https://youtu.be/jYqA6lyMaLw

I would welcome any considerations
Alex

[bryanisaoldgit]

i had that sort of noise on my daughters 3.0td
i,m not convinced that it is big ends but it may be
on my girls it was a bit of piston broke off and it
stayed in the bore and when up and down with the
piston the only way to be sure is to strip it down
its not rocket sience to strip it out just a lot of work
i done hers in the truck from under side bit of a fiddle but can be done
drop font axle
give you a tip get hold of a doc,s stethiscope and listen on sump
and engine side to locate the noise

[BillaBob]

Im Not Convinced.....

I would agree with Old Git, Listening to your video I'm not convinced that is a big end Knock. It does not seem a deep enough noise, yours sounds like more of a tap. You need to listen to that noise from above the engine bay, then below laid under the truck & assess where its noisiest . I will do my best to describe the best way to locate where that noise is coming from.
You will need a long length of round wooden dowel, or any material that is round preferably, just make sure the one end is smooth and has no sharp edges (this is the end that will go against your ear.
Now imagine you are sat there and you gently push your index finger against the little knobbly piece of skin that covers your ear canal, right this is where you will place the blunt end of your rod or dowel. The other end you can place on various parts of the engine until you track down where the noise is coming from. Just make sure you firmly locate the dowel onto the engine component first, then lower your head to the dowel. Once perfected you could even be able to locate a dodgy bearing in an alternator! Oh by the way, try and make sure you don't slip and put your head in the Fan - because that really hurts.
The other thing that can partner a set of big end mains that have failed, is non existent oil pressure at idle.

[Alex O]

Hi Guys,

Thank you for both of your responses.

I would love to investigate and then repair (or rebuild if required) myself but my wife needs the truck duing the week and I just don't have the time to commit to this.

I have asked a garage next to my office to take a look and he also said it sounded like the top of the engine. He is going to give it a closer look later today and report back.

I am pleased that both of you don't think it's the big end (but piston would also be an expensive pain!). There is no loss of oil pressure but it did struggle to idle this morning from cold for about 5 secs.

Once I get the initial view from the garage I shall report back.

[tashtego]

It sounds to me like a valve sort of knock.
Were the valves and seats ok when you put the new head in?

Cheers

[bryanisaoldgit]

you could also have a heater plug
snapped off take um out and have a look
easy job

[Alex O]

Thanks Bryan.
I'm afraid the truck has now gone into the garage so it's too late for me to start ripping it apart. However, I trust that they are competent and honest so if that's the case, i'm sure they will not tell me I need a full rebuild......

Should find out later what their initial diagnosis is......

[Alex O]

UPDATE: The garage have said that the camshaft was worn and that I therefore need a new cam, the gaps for the shims need to be measured so that shims can be made and fitted and then as an addiional extra (on my request) the leaking camcover gasket will also be replaced.

Quoted 6 hours plus parts (the camshaft being around £300 from memory) so the entire job should be *=£800 + VAT.

I presume that the cam can just get worn, perhaps through sticky lifters? and that a worn cam will result in incorrect piston action etc. which in turn caused the rattle/knocking noise.

Much better result than I was expecting and truck will be back on the road in a couple of weeks.

PS - I had a quote for a recon block (no ancillaries etc.) for £4,300 - £800 upon return of old block!!!!! WHAAAAAAAAT!!! Then there would be the labour to fit it. At least I don't need this.

[bryanisaoldgit]

sorry but i cant believe that a cam would wear to the extent
of the noise you got if i was you i would try and get it down to
tony i fink he in basingstoke so not too far for you
also if the cam is at fault i would have thought
that it would be the bearings
also if it was shims it would have developed slowly
my personal thought is i would not use your garage i
would get it to tony or somebody that fully understands
the surf

[Growler]

I'm with the old fella on this. have they confirmed that non e os the exisiting shims have managed to work its way out of the bucket and jumping around ?

Also why make shims,when they can but a kit from Toyota ?

[Alex O]

Sorry guys, perhaps I was not clear enough with my last post:

They thought the noise was top end related (as did you) and therefore had a look at the cam for an initial view. This showed that a couple of the lobes had worn down to the softer metal thus causing faster rotation of the affected lifters and as a result, the knocking/rattling noise.

This is the extent of their investigation so far.

However, as a result of the cam being worn it is likely that something higher up has gone wrong (gaps, shim misplacement/wear, sticky lifter etc. etc.) they do not know yet as the next phase of investigation will incur a charge. However, it is likely that whatever the cause, I will need new shims, lifters and a cam as well as perhaps other associated components....who knows.

I think this makes perfect sense and I have asked them to proceed with stripping the top down to remedy the problem.

Incidentally, I spoke to Tony first and he said he doesn't really have the facility to strip/rebuild an engine that potentially needs to go all the way to the bottom and that most people would simply replace the engine as it could be cheaper. This is not what I want to do....plus towing the truck to Tony is far more difficult than leaving it in the car park at work...where it came to rest!

Once I have more info (probably a couple of weeks) I shall update.

I asked about making shims v buying genuine Toyota parts etc. They didnt recommend genuine toyota (cam) due to the price difference and that there are many high quality OE parts (and poor quality ones)....as long as high quality OE pattern parts are used he was confident in a long life. I would normally pay the extra for Toyota but I will take his advice as they are a well respected company with 30 years experience of rebuilding engines amd know a number of people who have used them for far more expensive vehicles than my old Surf.

[bryanisaoldgit]

well good luck with it anyway
but its not down to the price of
the motor its down to the fact
that they are a motor out on
thieown and you need knoledge of um
i know a bmw fitter a very good one
but he buggered up two surfs so far
anyway keep us up to daye

[Alex O]

Yes, quite right....but all the effort and time to fix....often cheaper just to replace (if that's your bag).

I understand that specialists are often a better bet (my other cars are always taken to a specialist of I can't do it myself) but as much as I love the Surf.....it's an incredibly basic 3.0 diesel engine used in a large range of elderly Toyotas....if this proves too much for a competent engine man then perhaps he is not competent?

I will let you know more as time goes on....

Cheers
Alex