3rd Generation blues

[tashtego]

Hi all,
After years of reading posts and threads on the site I finally get to start one, yippee ! I've lived in East Africa for close to ten years and I can tell you that this is really toyota territory. Cars live hard lives here: poor maintenance,heat,dust,dirty diesel,dodgy chinese parts..bar for few exceptions (such as the Patrol,or some models of the Ford Ranger) only toyotas can face this amount of abuse. The surf was heavily imported here in the last few years,however they seem to have suffered more than other models. The 2.4 diesel ones have all but become extinct through natural selection (see cyl head failure). The only 2nd generation surfs left are the 2.8 aspirated (3L engine,I think) and the petrol ones,which here are mostly the 3.0 V6. The 3 Gen ones are now starting to suffer with the same overheating symptoms,which worries me coz I have just bought one!! I know some contributors feel that it's in the scheme of things for the head to be replaced on a truck with,say, 200 thousand Km on the clock, but I tend to disagree. There are vehicles here with the 2.8 diesel (3L) or 3.0 aspirated diesel (is it the 5L?), not to mention the 4.2 landcruisers, that reach 400 or even 500 thousand Km, and the engine has never been opened.... So my questions are:
1) Is it the Turbocharger that puts extra strain on the surfs?
2) Are 3rd gen KZN 185 surfs starting to show overheating related issues(just like their 2L-TE cousins) in UK as well?
Sorry this is quite long for a first post, it's just that I am off work today,you see..
Cheers

[J i m s t e r]

I guess it's overheating that does the head.

The question is, where does the overheating come from?

One theory I've seen for the 3rd gen (I dunno if the 2nd gens are plumbed the same) is that the pipes for the rear heater perish over time and may leak coolant slowly. Fortunately mine just split in one go and ####ed it all away, so it was easy to see. I replaced them with copper.

Vince did an autopsy on a 3rd gen rad and it's pretty puny IIRC. The trans cooler on the bottom is particularly feeble.

Also, never changing the coolant would cause overheating.

Add on...

[TonyN]

I think you've got that the wrong way round, the 3.0 3rd Gen rad is huge compared to a 3.0 2nd Gen, which is way bigger than a 2.4.

All heads/blocks can crack if overheated, google Patrol Cracked heads, or Landrover, especially Mitusbushi, or nearly anything, its just life.

The 2.4 had an actual flaw, you couldn't get it hot at all, the 3.0 is a lot better, and can live with being given some heat and working hard, but unless you buy a brand new truck you will never know how abused it's been by previous owners, just because they are shiny and clean inside and out, dosn't mean its not been overheated and filled with radseal to sell it.

I'd still rather have a Surf and replace the head when it goes than most other 4x4's around.

Remember a Surf isn't a LandCruiser, its built cheaper and less robust to fit its niche and price band when new, you can't give it same abuse without upgrading things, but its still a fantastic SUV for its money.

[tashtego]

I see, thank you both for your replies, so the main message is : DO NOT OVERHEAT IT! Easier said than done here at the tropics... but will try hard.

Which leads me to the next couple of issues: the car has some red coolant in it , probably still original from japan, but I have no idea how long it has been there...the level seems pretty costant,it goes up a bit in the expansion tank when engine is hot, then returns to the line, pretty much, when cool.This is normal,right? Simple Physics, a liquid is heated up and increases in volume...or is it not? Its just that having the surf now I ve become aware of cooling system issues that before, with iother cars, I never even considered...just drove!

So:
1) A degree of movement of coolant level in expansion tank is normal, right?

2) Do I keep the coolant (but for how long?) or do I bleed the whole system,flush it clean and replace with commercial coolant? (Maybe toyota's own?)Dilemma...

Thanks chaps ( and chapesses, of course!)

[shokenore]

I see, thank you both for your replies, so the main message is : DO NOT OVERHEAT IT! Easier said than done here at the tropics... but will try hard.

Which leads me to the next couple of issues: the car has some red coolant in it , probably still original from japan, but I have no idea how long it has been there...the level seems pretty costant,it goes up a bit in the expansion tank when engine is hot, then returns to the line, pretty much, when cool.This is normal,right? Simple Physics, a liquid is heated up and increases in volume...or is it not? Its just that having the surf now I ve become aware of cooling system issues that before, with iother cars, I never even considered...just drove!

So:
1) A degree of movement of coolant level in expansion tank is normal, right? YES

2) Do I keep the coolant (but for how long?) or do I bleed the whole system,flush it clean and replace with commercial coolant? (Maybe toyota's own?)Dilemma... Your Choice

Thanks chaps ( and chapesses, of course!)

Toyota do RED and GREEN Coolant but do not mix them


These guys could be pretty helpful ?
http://www.toyotamalawi.com/

[Bogus]

I see, thank you both for your replies, so the main message is : DO NOT OVERHEAT IT! Easier said than done here at the tropics... but will try hard.


So:
1) A degree of movement of coolant level in expansion tank is normal, right?

YES

2) Do I keep the coolant (but for how long?) or do I bleed the whole system,flush it clean and replace with commercial coolant? (Maybe toyota's own?)Dilemma...

NO HARM IN A FLUSH AND CHANGE

Thanks chaps ( and chapesses, of course!)

Being in the tropics is not a major contributory factor to overheating. The difference outside air temperature makes is not great . You can have 20-30 degs higher outside air temperature than us cold or temperates but that will not translate into a 20-30 deg difference in water jacket temperature. Its the work that you are making the engine do and the condition of the cooling system that lead to overheat.

[tashtego]

I see...

Great,
Thank you all for your informative posts, feel much better now!
Thanks to shokenore for link to my local toyota dealer, I ve actually been a customer of theirs for a few years since I had a Rav before, but still cool of you to think about it.

Tried O/D and ECT button today, together, while overtaking a lorry on a hill.....all I can say is that they work!!

Now if someone tells me how to get rid of the dashboard rattle, the one that goes away by moving the lever to hot, then I'll really be a happy bunny! - read some old threads about how to locate the pipes behind the dash but cldnt rteally make much sense of it. For a start what' s the "transmission tunnel"?Which one is the heater temperature control cable,there's millions of them...ok slight exageration

:O)

[KERRSURF]

A good radiator flush kit and some fresh coolant every 8 months or so is a cheap way to go. Have a good look at all the hoses once a week, fit an aftermarket temp gauge. Keep the oil servicing regular. Avoid towing.

[GROWLER_GRRRR]

loves every minute

I love towing the surf loves towing