Injection Timing

[mr.rosco]

Hi, I have just changed my head and the injection timing mark is now slightly ahead its mark and I was wondering how I correct this should I take the cam belt off and force it back a few degrees while holding the crankshaft nut still or do I adjust it by tilting the injection pump without removing the belt. Any help would be appreciated, cheers.

[TonyN]

You shouldn't need to adjust the fuel pump, it won't alter the position of the timing mark.

Do you fit a new belt? It can't really be wrong, the belt is cogged, and one cog either way is to much. unless the belt is stretched.

The timing can't be wrong unless something terminal has happened internally where the timing gears run.

The pump gear driven off the crank by gears, the crank pointer and the fuel pump gear mark MUST line up together, only the cam is driven by the belt, so if the cam and fuel pump marks don't line up its a belt issue.

[mr.rosco]

Hi Tony

The Crankshaft timing mark and the injection timing marks are are not matching up. The reason I have changed the head is because the camshaft (Not belt) snapped in three places on the old one, luckly when starting not when driving. I am using a new head/ new belt and the car drives fine but takes about 15secs of turning over to start as the injection pump timingmark is a few degrees past where it should be. So I think the cogs must have jumped between the injection pump and crankshaft but I am not really sure how this cog system works.

[TonyN]

Its complected in there! lol not sure how cam breaking could effect it though, and its pretty robust anyway. If it had skipped a tooth I imagine it'd be quite a way out, just like the cambelt would be.

I guess if you retarded the pump body a little it would make up for it if it is advanced slightly, but its not really the 'right' way to fix it and not really something to recommend.

If it is too advanced it should be knocking badly when it runs, or at least making black smoke under load.

Are you sure you're not being over fussy with the marks?

If you wanted to take the timing cover off and check the backlash of all the gears for slack you could, but its not the easiest job in the world.

[mr.rosco]

I am asuming there must have been a fair amount of strain on the cogs/ gears for the camshaft to snap but if it is that robust, then the belt would maybe go/ stretch first. There is black smoke under load. Maybe the marks never lined up before, I didn't check the crankshaft mark aganst the injector mark. I can feel a bit of lower engine inspection goining on this weekend and also changing the timing so that the injector pump is spot on and the crankshaft mark is slightly behind its mark, I'll have to see what happens. Thanks for your help.

[TonyN]

the trouble I see is the cam to crank timing, altering the pump timing marks won't change this, only the injection timing to either crank or cam, ie you can get it to inject in the right place for the Pistons at TDC, or the valves closed properly, but not both.

[KERRSURF]

On the crank there is a bit of play on timing up the marks.
With the head off no4 piston should be TDC then with the cam in correct position (pulley on timing mark, woodruff key uppermost) the pump marks should be on the button.
I use the zip-tie method on these belts to position belt with no slack before bolting on the idler pulley and tensioner. Check everything is good then cut the zip-tie and pull the pin on tensioner.

Pump timing can be advanced or retarded slightly with the ridge marks on the pump mount.

How many miles had the old cam done before breaking, just out of interest, as this happened to me once?

[mr.rosco]

How many miles had the old cam done before breaking, just out of interest, as this happened to me once?[/QUOTE]

Around 130K Miles assuming it hasn't been clocked, no history what so ever. not even mots. The culprit was a snapped bolt on the cambelt tensioner, the belt jumped quite far. One previous owner has truly hacked at the electrics and obviously not used a torque wrench but the body is in really good condition and I bought the car as a hobby

[wishbone]

You haven't got any 'extra' marks painted on by any chance ? Reason I asked is that the 3.0 I bought had been messed about with and the injector pump was 180 degrees out with the pipes bent about to fit the wrong outputs. Took ages to start but ran fairly well once going. I had to take the timing cover off and remove the crankshaft gear and the big idler gear and put back on correctly.

[mr.rosco]

From what I recall there a a couple of painted marks, I put it down to marking timing belts but I will definetly check that at weekend. Thanks

[yoshie]

15sec of cranking to start.

You did refit the glow plug power lead?

[KERRSURF]

And prime the pump?

[mr.rosco]

Yes fuel is fine and the glow plugs are fine, I checked these after I fitted the head. It took me a bit of fiddling about to get the fuel to reach the injectors but after priming the filter and bleeding the pump and pipes I got there. Also the black smoke under load suggests to me a timing issue as before the head change the car started instantly and there was no smoke from the exhaust under load.

I will check the injection pump punching line and upper processing surface to check the pump is installed correctly also if there is a little bit of play in the crankshaft maybe I can get it to sync better by altering the timing slightly in favour of the pump rather than the crankshaft. I think as with all old things a little bit of experimenting is called for and if all else fails I'l have to inpect the internal gears.

Fingers crossed for a dry day tomorrow.

[mr.rosco]

A big thank you to every one for your ideas, I have changed the timing so that the cam and pump are spot on and the crank is lagging its marks. The truck starts straight away now and there is no black smoke under load, so this seems to have sovled the issue. This is the first surf I have had and I don't know any one else who has one but I will have to try to find someone with one to compare power etc with. Thanks again.

[KERRSURF]

Glad it's up and running, I had the same when timing my truck up, a bit of lash in the bottom pulley but luckily got it right first time.