bit of a non starter

[mickey]

Ok, its not specific to the 3 ltr, and i did post a similar thing in the electrical section but i'll run it by you anyway..in brief, as hopefully i'll be on my way to work in ten minutes!

A few weeks ago, i had a dodgy start..ie, the engine turned briefly, but quite lively! then stopped..the second turn was slow, kinda like the battery winding down..but..on the third attemp she fired up as norm..

This happened at approx 2 or 3 week intervals, about four times in all. Each time it started fine, but after a bit of hesitation on the first couple of turns..Each time it was the first turn of the day, and subsequently it ran fine..until the next time..

OK, i topped up both batteries..bought a starter repair kit from Roughtrax (just in case)..checked the terminals and the earth strap..Had the batteries tested, the result of which being a clean bill of health, (apparently the drop test? showed 600 something...ther guy seemed impressed anyway..but he didn't test them in isolation)

The last couple of days, and things are more sinister..The morning grumbles have turned into an every start grumble..I called Toyota to get two new batteries, but their data base was down and haven't yet got back to me..This morning i tried it, just to see, and it started fine..Went to take the wife to work ten minutes later, and all i got was five relay clicks from behind the radio, followed by a clean start!

Now i'm thinking it ain't the batteries? The radio (origional) has beed clicking off suddenly for the last few months, then, minutes, hours or days springing back to life..Also, approx a year ago i had an ignition barrel changed by toyota when my key got well and truely jammed..Could there be anything astray in that area? or could it still be battery related? It certainly doesn't seem like a starter motor clunk..just a sharp click from behind the radio..grrrr

Well..maybe it'll start..i'm off to work..if not, i'll be back in ten minutes!

[davemaxx]

although not on a surf i suffered a simular problem meny years ago and went down the same rout you have described. it turned out to be an earth strap wasn't clamped down tight, it was only just touching the chassie, on visual inspection it looked fine but when i grabed it, it was not connected and just arcking across, sometimes the motor started and outhers not. i would definatly start at the ignition barrel and re-check your work and bear in mind that the wireing for starting and battery to starter motor is usually the bigger stuff, some of the earth straps can be like a woven copper tape and they corrode and won't pass a currant, also check for losse and dirty relay inside the fuse boxes.

[mickey]

Okay Dave, thanks for that..As you can tell, i got it to work and back..Yeah, much of the advice so far (i posted a similar query on another forum, electrical i think) seems to run along the lines of checking the earth strap.

I'm assuming what i'm looking at is the earth strap? as it looks kinda more like a little wire to me! running off the battery terminal cable and attatched to the inner wing with a small nut? And on the passenger side, the same thing, only harder to get to as its tucked away near the black plastic pipe that comes from the air filter housing and dissapears behind the headlight?

To be fair.LOOKING at them, they appear corrosion free, and nipped up tightly..However, i will give them more attention..

Toyota haven't been great regarding the batteries though. I only opted for them because doing a search suggested the toyota ones might work out comparitively cheap..Today was the third day of phoning..Not only don't they get back to me, but have said the issue was in the hands of the technical guys who are struggling to find compatible batteries for the surf..

Roughtrax do them, but they don't come with acid due to transportation issues which is fair enough..but where do i go and buy acid from no, second thoughts, you'd better not answer that one..The motor factors seem to have one that'll fit, but asking for another, only with the terminals the other way around met with a blank gaze, as if waiting for the punchline! Thats a point, why can't i just turn it around? Gawd, that was probably a real daft thing to say..

Ah well..i'll see what happens come morning

[davemaxx]

negative earth, the big fat black wires that come off the - negative side of the batteries, (the ones your looking at are probably for headlights, indicaters ect) most half decent garages will fill a dry battery if you get one from roughtrax.

i'd still look for a loose realay in a fuse box because you said it only happens now and again, some relays have got spade ends sticking out the bottom and can work their way up out of the connection and just sit and wobble about

[mickey]

Right, back with ya..the wagon has been starting, although very touch n go at times..I checked the wires etc...but...having said its not a starter motor type click...ermmm, i rather think it is now..(i've had several clicks to listen too, and there are deffo some click sounds coming from the starter motor).

As i mentioned earlier, i have already got the Roughtrax repair kit, although doing some research, it would appear the Toyota one would have been slightly cheaper, and of course the genuine article..

Reading through the relevant posts, it looks like removing the starter motor isn't exactly a doddle..In expert hands, removal, revamp and refit..one hour..in inexperienced but thorough hands..five hours,...in my hands..erm, maybe two days..Time to phone the experts methinks, before the truck is rendered motionless.

On a different note, let me run this by you..see what you think..

Several days ago, when i was still convinced i had a battery issue, i phoned Marshall Toyota in King's lynn..explained i required two batteries for a Hilux Surf, but was unsure as to what parts numbers they would be. "no probs sir, just give us the chassis number etc and we'll look them up"..I gave them the relevant serial numbers, and waited for their reply..When none was forthcoming, i called them back, only for them to tell me the data base was down..Okay, no problem..i'll call them back the next day..which i did. "I'm sorry sir, but we've had to put the battery query to the technical department, and we are awaiting their reply" Uh?..okay..

Today, i recieved that reply.

"good morning sir, its Mark from Marshalls Toyota, how are you?"

"I'm very well thanks, you?"

"Well, i was fine until i recieved the call from Toyota sir"

(me, in puzzeled tone) "Oh, whats up?"

"They have no record of your vehicle sir, its not supposed to be in this country"

"Erm, well its a Japanese import Mark"

"Yes sir, i'm aware of that, but only a certain number of vehicles are released from Japan for export, and your's isn't one of them..it shouldn't be here..Toyota have no record of your vehicle"

"Well, they did two weeks ago when they did the cam belt, and a year ago they changed the ignition barrel, even matching the keys to the origionals!"

(long pause)"Well, i can't explain that sir, but i'm very sorry to say, we can't help you by providing batteries for your vehicle"

"Okay mate, no worries, i'll get them from Halfords"

Now the fella wasn't giving any attitude, and was polite..And to be fair, my past experiences of Toyota King's Lynn have been nothing short of excellent..Very helpfull, and excellent service...so...what the f@@k was that all about? Are they implying they want now't more to do with my little ole Surfy? or a batteries some sort of sore point with them?

[mickey]

Well..it's fixed! Starter motor it certainly was..all nicely repaired with the roughtrax kit..

Actually, i enlisted the help of a neighbour..well, he volunteered when he saw me grasping at the alternator! Having read the posts, regarding what an awkward removal the motor can be, i was fearing the worse, but having removed the fuel filter and auto box stick, it did wiggle free without too much apparent drama..maybe he just got lucky? anyway..he did say that less than dandy batteries could hasten the wear on a starter motor, so i'll get my two renewed before winter..

ta for the input, as always..case closed.

[coolsv650]

Well..it's fixed! Starter motor it certainly was..all nicely repaired with the roughtrax kit..

Actually, i enlisted the help of a neighbour..well, he volunteered when he saw me grasping at the alternator! Having read the posts, regarding what an awkward removal the motor can be, i was fearing the worse, but having removed the fuel filter and auto box stick, it did wiggle free without too much apparent drama..maybe he just got lucky? anyway..he did say that less than dandy batteries could hasten the wear on a starter motor, so i'll get my two renewed before winter..

ta for the input, as always..case closed.

When my batteries went I just took them to the local motor factors, they are infact and contentary to popular belief standard type batteries (but I can't remember the battery codes!)