1st Gear Poppping out

[Gonzo]

Hey fella's, this is my first post here, it's a good place to be...

Anyway, bought my very first Surf few months back, 95 TD manual [1KZTE] with a known intermittent problem of first gear popping back out at around 1500RPM. Usually with a fairly solid 'bang!' and a few expletives from me...

It used to do it every so often, maybe once a week, but now it's constant and I'm forced to use 2nd gear starts which I'm guessing probably isn't the best clutch-wise etc

I've noticed if it's held in [under fairly solid duress] it'll crunch on the same frequency, like it's hitting something on a gear, though I only tried this once.

I've booked it in for a diagnosis, but would value any opinions on how serious it is, and how much of a mission it's going to be to get fixed. I'm usually my own mechanic, have a few notches in my belt as far as pulling engines to bits goes, but due to my being a student, $ is fairly valuable, so I'll definitely try it if it's a job that could be done over a weekend/week/month...whatever. Any clues as to specialist tools etc would also be invaluable info to my predicament.

Cheers guys, I appreciate any feedback.

g.

[WARRIOR72]

do you have any problems engaging reverse or any other gears? problems with first and reverse normally indicate a clutch fault ,have you checked the engine/gearbox mountings? if its just occuring in first at a certain speed/revs i think it may be the synchro ring teeth on first gear wearing out which normally means box out, recon or overhaul.let us know how your diagnosis goes good luck.

[BUSHWHACKER]

..........also, there's a plastic/nylon pivot bushing at the base of the gear lever that wears causing the 'box to jump out of gear. Cheap repair!

[Vagrant No2]

http://4runners.org/writeups/shift/index.html

[Gonzo]

Cheers for the replys fella's - Bushwacker/Vagrant, cheers - but yeah, I've replaced both the rubber bushing underneath the shift lever, and the top plate that houses the lever with no joy. I was told there's a chance the two pins either side that holds the cyndrilical disc could be causing problem as they were pretty loose, but that hasn't helped either.

Warrior: not really, reverse is fine, sometimes 3rd a little clunky, never grinds in, just every now and then seems to hit a wall as such....give the lever a bit of a wiggle and she pops right in...dropping down from 3rd into 2nd requires a small amt of effort, but nothing major. Will check the mounts too thanks.

As for the synchro ring, expensive and tricky to replace? Would it be worth doing other bits while I'm [or whoever does the job] is in there?

Thanks again guys,

g.

[Morr]

This might sound a little simplistic, but have you checked the oil level in the box? Don't know if it affects the Surf specifically but many vehicles can have difficulty engaging gear if low on oil.

[Vagrant No2]

Drain the gearbox oil out and see if it is still a golden colour . If greyish and mettalic looking and some bits of metal are present it could be worn out syncros and gears .
Normally 2nd and 3rd gears pop out of gear as these are used most out of all gears and wear first.

[Gonzo]

Well I took the old girl in to a transmission specialist yesterday, and I'm told it's most likely the 'synchro hub' and/or the first gear....gear.

So Vagrant, think you might be right, but I have no idea what a synchro hub is, though I'm told there's one for each gear??? Or is it a main part of the box that drives all the gears? I was told the teeth on them taper in, so as to lock when engaged, and so if they wear then obviously they're going to slip back out, which makes perfect sense I guess.

So, hav a few options I'm throwing around - one is to simply buy a 2nd hand box, do a swap, then get the other box fixed and sell it. Or, I remove the box myself, buy in the parts and take them into the transmission place to get replaced, at this stage, least expensive, most reliable option.

Or, of course, I open the @$#% thing myself...! have a mate who's had some experience with gearboxes, but not a helluva lot, so that's the cheapest but most risky option. [I'm a student, if I can avoid paying a professional I will =]

So, there you have it, if anyone has any experience with synchro hubs etc ANY advice whatsoever would be awesome. At least can someone tell me if I'm crazy to be attempting open heart surgery on my own gearbox, or is it one of those things - with the right tools, paitence and technician's manual/box diagrams etc, it could be done....?

Thanks for the replys also, truck's due for a service so will be checking suggested options anyway when I do that.

Cheers,

g.

[WARRIOR72]

with the right tools anythings possible mate!!
i dont know about the innerds of a surf box,when i was an apprentice the amount of work you could do to a gearbox varied greatly,some are easy to take apart with the gears/synchros on snap rings,some you have to heat the gears up or use special pullers so not to damage the teeth when taking off. some the whole shafts needed replacing due to wear/chipped teeth. there are a lot of springs/ball bearings in some gearboxes that can fly off never to be found again.it depends what road you want to take really,whether to gamble on a second hand box and just swap it complete,or strip one down and check it and make one decent box out of two so to speak.i dont know if tony n has stripped any down and can help you but think he on holiday at moment(cheek of it!!)some of the land rover shafts we replaced were about £300 for the bare shaft.i dont know the availability and prices for surf gearbox parts. hope this helps (a little?) good luck

[Gonzo]

[ with the right tools anythings possible mate!! ]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, and I figure with a digital camera and a great wad of writing pad, it could be done, though can't say I buzz with confidence and excitement at the thought of it...though do appreciate your input there Warrior, at this stage ANYTHING is going to work in my favour, it's the 'springs/ball bearings flying everywhere' thing that puts the cold chill up me end, seem to remember the days of 'fixing' my model cars when I was a kid, they never did quite go the same after that...

Anyway, I've managed to track down a full breakdown for this particular garbox, but to me it looks like the birth-child of Lego & Cheezles, apologies for the quality but it's the best I can do so far.



A high-res [quote 'hi-res'] version is available here if it's of any use:

http://www.gcreative.co.nz/kzn130Box.html

So......any takers on who wants to identify the 'Synchro Hub' for first gear, and 'First Gear' for first gear???

Already I'm eyeing up the too-hard basket, but we'll see, plenty more research on the cards...

Thanks again fellas,

g.

[Grimreeper]

Dont have a clue what is 1st gear or syncro hub but i have a 3.0TD manual gear and transfer box in perfect working order but i think the cost of shipping to NZ would be a bit on the steep side lol
Hope you get it sorted at minimum cost