Head Problems / New Engine Required?! Advice please...

[codlord]

Been having overheating problems and suspected the dreaded "head crack" scenario. Just had the head off and a strange number of problems:

- Cracks in the head on 3 & 4
- Small cracks in the block on 3 & 4 (going around the bores not up/down)
- Looks like its been blowing between 2 & 3 (from the look of the gasket)
- Looks like water has been getting in bores 3 & 4
- Looks like water has been getting between 1 & 2 (from the look of the gasket)


Looks like the best choice for me now is to get a new engine (I know there are other options but I think they all carry the risk of problems later down the line), so...

Question 1: Any ideas where to look for another 2LT engine and how much can I expect to pay?

Question 2: Is it possible to fit a 1KZTE engine? I know it's got electronically controlled ignition etc so would I need to replace the ECU/wiring/loom and stuff like that? Anyone done it before?

Any advice (or pity/sympathy ) greatly appreciated

[Vagrant No2]

Been having overheating problems and suspected the dreaded "head crack" scenario. Just had the head off and a strange number of problems:

- Cracks in the head on 3 & 4
- Small cracks in the block on 3 & 4 (going around the bores not up/down)
- Looks like its been blowing between 2 & 3 (from the look of the gasket)
- Looks like water has been getting in bores 3 & 4
- Looks like water has been getting between 1 & 2 (from the look of the gasket)


Looks like the best choice for me now is to get a new engine (I know there are other options but I think they all carry the risk of problems later down the line), so...

Question 1: Any ideas where to look for another 2LT engine and how much can I expect to pay?

Question 2: Is it possible to fit a 1KZTE engine? I know it's got electronically controlled ignition etc so would I need to replace the ECU/wiring/loom and stuff like that? Anyone done it before?

Any advice (or pity/sympathy ) greatly appreciated

It would appear most of the faults are head related and so scrap the head .
Cracks in block all depends about exactly where they are . I have only ever seen 1 bore fail due to a pin hole through to water jacket on a diesel engine , simply due to the thickness of the liner/bore to water jacket is normally to thick to fail . Some hairline cracking may not be serious to actually be a fault and cause a problem .
I suggest you contact Stevo as he has most experiance of Surf engines on here and may have seen these cracks before .

Rick

[codlord]

Cracks in block all depends about exactly where they are . I have only ever seen 1 bore fail due to a pin hole through to water jacket on a diesel engine , simply due to the thickness of the liner/bore to water jacket is normally to thick to fail . Some hairline cracking may not be serious to actually be a fault and cause a problem .
I suggest you contact Stevo as he has most experiance of Surf engines on here and may have seen these cracks before .

I have had a head/engine specialist check it for me but they could not check how deep the cracks went, they also said they could supply bore-sleeves for £200 but this would still require a serious engine re-build so thought a new engine may actually be the cheaper/easier option.

I have also PM'd stevo asking if he can read this post.

Thanks
Simon

[jotto]

I have had a head/engine specialist check it for me but they could not check how deep the cracks went, they also said they could supply bore-sleeves for £200 but this would still require a serious engine re-build so thought a new engine may actually be the cheaper/easier option.

I have also PM'd stevo asking if he can read this post.

Thanks
Simon

I would go for a rebuild on your engine. The cost of a second hand engine may be a bit cheaper BUT do you know what you would be buying???????.
At least if you have yours rebuilt you know what you've got.

[codlord]

I think I am gonna go for the new head/engine rebuild option becuase although it will cost slightly more than a new engine as jotto said, at least I know the state of the engine and know that it will have a brand new head etc.

For anyone whos interested I called find-a-part on 09069 190266 (£1 per min for a 3-4 min call) and got about 8 people call me up within a few hours offering me used 2LT engines. Prices ranged from about £800 to £1000 (prices including VAT). Some were just block/head/sump and some were complete engines.

Bore/sleeves is going to be about £200 and new head is going to be about £700-£800 with gaskets/bolts etc. My cousin is a mechanic and will be doing the engine rebuild so labour costs should be reasonable.

Ho hum, and I have just spent £2000 on my other car and £800 on one of my motorbikes I guess that's the price I pay for running a "fleet", anyway they will all be back on (or off) the road soon

P.S. Vagrant - whats that in your avatar pic, I cannot work it out?

[Koi]

P.S. Vagrant - whats that in your avatar pic, I cannot work it out?

Its a bit off his project/rebuild/restoration lotus, cam cover from a Mk2 1558cc Lotus twin cam.
Trouble is by the time hes finished it and the cakes consumed in between he'll never fit in it

[silvtr1000]

Codlord,

Sorry to hear about your engine problems. When I started considering buying a Surf, yours was the site I visited most regularly. Good site & good info.

You have a couple of articles on there about flushing the cooling system/replacing the thermostat & cap - how long ago did you do that?

Was your head going to pop anyway all along?

Was your temperature guage behaving differently for long/at all prior to you current problem?

I'd agree with rebuilding your own engine - a new-to-you engine may do the same thing within 100 miles. (I have a boss who's great at stating the obvious...... He's a tw@t....).

Mark

[codlord]

You have a couple of articles on there about flushing the cooling system/replacing the thermostat & cap - how long ago did you do that?

Was your head going to pop anyway all along?

Was your temperature guage behaving differently for long/at all prior to you current problem?

Thanks,

The surf has been regularly serviced and the cooling system flushed not long ago when I had a service and cam-belt. I had no symptoms or overheating at all until after 3 hours of driving one day when the radiator exploded. I got this fixed but nothing else seemed wrong, so I took it steady for a few days and all seemed to be o.k.
Then on another long journey after 3 hours (almost to the minute) the temp starts rising severely, I limp to where I am going but by this time the radiator is cracked so another rad repair, thermostat replaced, water pump replaced but all this did not stop the overheating, hence "take head off and find its knackered".

[Woodie]

Thanks,
The surf has been regularly serviced and the cooling system flushed not long ago when I had a service and cam-belt. I had no symptoms or overheating at all until after 3 hours of driving one day when the radiator exploded. I got this fixed but nothing else seemed wrong, so I took it steady for a few days and all seemed to be o.k.
Then on another long journey after 3 hours (almost to the minute) the temp starts rising severely, I limp to where I am going but by this time the radiator is cracked so another rad repair, thermostat replaced, water pump replaced but all this did not stop the overheating, hence "take head off and find its knackered".

Do you think the head problem could be a result of two dodgy rads, or the rads a bi product of a dodgy head? Normally only a very bad rad would 'blow up'.
Just thinking.

[stevo]

Been having overheating problems and suspected the dreaded "head crack" scenario. Just had the head off and a strange number of problems:

- Cracks in the head on 3 & 4
- Small cracks in the block on 3 & 4 (going around the bores not up/down)
- Looks like its been blowing between 2 & 3 (from the look of the gasket)
- Looks like water has been getting in bores 3 & 4
- Looks like water has been getting between 1 & 2 (from the look of the gasket)


Looks like the best choice for me now is to get a new engine (I know there are other options but I think they all carry the risk of problems later down the line), so...

Question 1: Any ideas where to look for another 2LT engine and how much can I expect to pay?

Question 2: Is it possible to fit a 1KZTE engine? I know it's got electronically controlled ignition etc so would I need to replace the ECU/wiring/loom and stuff like that? Anyone done it before?

Any advice (or pity/sympathy ) greatly appreciated

Simon sorry about late reply but been offline for a couple of days.
Are you sure about the cracks around the bores ? like rick I have not come across this before, can you post any piccs so we can asses ?, re-sleeving the block is a cost effective long term repair which we do on a regular basis we have a 2.4 in the shop at the moment which has got serious erosion around the bores which we are re-sleeving, you must make sure the top of the block is totally flat, why not get your machine shop to skim it for you whilst they're at it, it should cost no more than £40 extra. Get your machine shop to have a good look at those cracks before doing work.
Cheers Steve.

[codlord]

Simon sorry about late reply but been offline for a couple of days.
Are you sure about the cracks around the bores ? like rick I have not come across this before, can you post any piccs so we can asses ?, re-sleeving the block is a cost effective long term repair which we do on a regular basis we have a 2.4 in the shop at the moment which has got serious erosion around the bores which we are re-sleeving, you must make sure the top of the block is totally flat, why not get your machine shop to skim it for you whilst they're at it, it should cost no more than £40 extra. Get your machine shop to have a good look at those cracks before doing work.

No problem steve. Yes, there are small cracks "around" two of the bores. The machine shop has already looked at them and did say that was unusual as its more normal to get up-down cracks? They said they could not tell how deep the cracks went and have offered to do the re-sleeving for about £200. I will see if I can get some pics over the weekend. I will also mention and ask about the skim.

Do you think the head problem could be a result of two dodgy rads, or the rads a bi product of a dodgy head? Normally only a very bad rad would 'blow up'.

Really don't know, details and pics of the first "exploded" rad are here:
http://www.yotasurf-online.co.uk/pub...ead.php?t=5976

One strange thing is that after that I got the rad re-cored, and when it was re-cored again a month or 2 later they said when they took the top off it was "gunked up" which I could not understand becuase it should have been a nearly new rad with new coolant etc. Still no explanation for that one!

thanks,
Simon

[codlord]

Got some photos but they are not very good and the cracks are not really visible (I could barely see them myself), but here they are:

Block:


One of the bores with cracks:

[kiwi-jim]

toyota new zealand do brand new short blocks (2lte) for around the $3000nz mark, or 1000 pounds in your money. miles toyota in christchurch. they used to come with a brand new bare head, but they now sell them seperatly.

[Guest]

Got some photos but they are not very good and the cracks are not really visible (I could barely see them myself), but here they are:

Block:


One of the bores with cracks:

I've seen that before - seems the opinion was that it is caused by differential heating/cooling caused by the carbon deposits at the top of the bore - carbon holds onto the heat more than the metal of the bore - the cracks are fatigue cracks caused by the liner being cooler in places than others - the ring follows the line of the area affected - that is whay it goes round the bore.

Cheers

[codlord]

Thanks, i've just had the block bored/sleeved/skimmed and a new head put on. Just got it back and apart from a slight blow on one of the exhaust recirculation gaskets that still needs to be sorted all seems good. Just drove to Wales and back (200 miles each way) and no problems.

Hopefully that will be the end of my engine woes! Thanks for everyones help/advice.