Injector pump advice needed

[xfman87]

Hi All

I have two toyota injector pumps that I have available to use for my Hilux 2.8 turbo conversion.

The Numbers on the pumps are:
22100 5B280
22100 6A610

Both have boost compensators and look exactly the same other than the first one having what looks like a shaft sticking out from where the 4 injector lines screw in.

Research suggests the 5B280 is out of a early 2lt and the 6A610 is out of a 2ct.

Does anyone know if the 2ct pump can be used on a 2lt or 3l engine?
Are the internals of the pumps the same?
Does anyone have any suggestions which would be best to use on the 3l engine?

[tweak'e]

22100 5B280 is also listed for hilux and landcruiser 2lt's.
the bit sticking out of the center is quite possibly a pilot injector or possibly high output valve. will have to check the books.
there was a high output 2lt that i think came out in the crown car.

the other rare possibility is someone left the timing tool on the pump.

[NiftyNev]

there was a high output 2lt that i think came out in the crown car.

That was a 2L-THE. Higher pressure fuel delivery.

Nev.

[NiftyNev]

No idea about the internals of a 2CT pump so no help there. I'd probably use the 2L-T pump. Wasn't the 2CT only a 2Ltr?

Nev.

[NiftyNev]

Got a pic of the rear of the 2L-T pump?

Nev.

[danielsprague]

These Denso pumps are clones of the Bosch VE4 type pumps and as such are basically the same internally. What varies are the governor sleeves which control injection volumes according to engine speed and accelerator pedal position. There may also be other differences such as the 'spring' rate of the dynamic timing modulation.

Therefore I would not use the -6A610 pump as this is set for a 2 litre engine.

These injection pumps are usually good to around 300-400k kilometres, then you'll want to start considering a new housing and perhaps distributive head.

If the pumps have been out of use for a while, it's a good idea to re-seal them.

I would also highly recommend giving your chosen pump to a diesel specialist to check and re-calibrate. There is very little that needs tuning on a diesel, but this is definitely one of them.

The shaft you are looking at is a second solenoid. It is used in some models to override any timing adjustment made in the pump (e.g. by the cold start device or internal fuel pressure) and I've never worked out what activates it. You should notice an extra pin on the wiring connector which would activate this solenoid. Chances are your Surf's loom does not have a connection to this, so you can forget about it as the default position of the solenoid is disengaged with regards the timing adjustment.

In short, get the 5B320 pump checked and use that. If it's worn inside you can rebuild it with bits from the other pump if that's in better condition.

Here's my 5B080 from a Hilux pickup after a complete strip down and rebuild with a new housing and all-new seals. This and new injector nozzles and calibration made the engine feel like new again.

[danielsprague]

the bit sticking out of the center is quite possibly a pilot injector or possibly high output valve.

What's a pilot injector? Or a high output valve??

[xfman87]

See attached photos of the 22100 5b280 pump

[xfman87]

Is getting the seals redone an expensive exercise? I think this one hasn't been sitting to long.

As for getting the pump re-calibrated, is this done with the pump installed on the engine or done prior to fitting it? And is this expensive as well?

The guy i got the 6A610 pump off said he had been running it ok on a 2lt no problems but you would expect it to not be as good as it is for a 2 litre engine.

The pump will be going on a 3l hilux engine turbo conversion.

Thanks for your help guys.

[tweak'e]

that looks like a pilot injection device (PIJ)
havn't seen one myself but i have a write up on it in a VE pump book.

its basically there to reduce combustion noise and pollution.

in the early days of common rail they came out with rotary injection pumps with pilot injection injectors. the injectors have two springs. the first one pops off to squirt a tiny bit of fuel in at the start then the main spring pops off the supply the main fuel for the injection.

might pay to get an injection specialist to check it over, i have no idea how reliable those pilot injection devices are. like anything with springs in them with high pressures, spring sag and probably needs tuning.
also give an idea of injection timing to use with it.

to add: just looking at the manual, the way this device works is to divert some of the injection fuel into a storage space. so as pressure builds the injector fires but then PIJ opens draining fuel off and causing the injector to close. once PIJ storage volume is full, the pressure goes back up and injector reopens. i would assume the internals (cam lift, plunger size etc) are designed around this device being fitted.

[danielsprague]

Is getting the seals redone an expensive exercise? I think this one hasn't been sitting to long.

As for getting the pump re-calibrated, is this done with the pump installed on the engine or done prior to fitting it? And is this expensive as well?

The guy i got the 6A610 pump off said he had been running it ok on a 2lt no problems but you would expect it to not be as good as it is for a 2 litre engine.

The pump will be going on a 3l hilux engine turbo conversion.

Thanks for your help guys.

OK, what's in the pictures is not the timing solenoid I thought it might be. I have no idea what that thing is, but this is not common rail technology and so I wonder if it is a pilot injector... To me it just looks like an extension of the distributive head plug, maybe to make it easier to get a dial gauge in there to check the plunger stroke and calibrate the timing.

Having your pump rebuilt / resealed might be a couple of hours labour at a diesel specialist, call one and inquire. It's a PITA to have to take the thing off the engine again if you find one of the seals to be leaking. Good news is that you can reseal it yourself fairly easily, though you need to make a couple of tools to get some of the bolts out.

The seals which usually go are in the lower timer device at the bottom of the pump, with a blanking plate on one side and a kind of nipple on the other (don't disturb the lock nut on this). Also the top cover seal can go, and the ACSD seal (cold start advance on the side of the pump with the two coolant ports). If you are mechanically competent, careful and can work on a clean surface, resealing these pumps is not that difficult. There is a write-up somewhere on the internet for a Peugeot Bosch VE pump which is 99% the same as yours.

Calibration is done on a bechtester (i.e. off engine); this measures internal pump pressure, injection volumes etc, should be about an hour's work. The only on-engine adjustment is the timing, which is adjusted by the rotational position of the pump to the engine. There may be a line scored on the front flange of the pump to align it to a similar mark on the engine's timing cover, but ideally you want to calibrate it with a dial indicator. This requires either a special toyota tool, or that you take the starter out to make room for the dial indicator. You also need an extension kit, which i got from ebay for about €25 from memory.

If you have the marks though, I would just line them up. Only if the engine is running badly would I go to manually re-time it.

Talk to a diesel specialist. I found one on the internet who had fixed prices for VE pump calibration and resealing.

Hope this helps.

[xfman87]

I'll take your advice and get the 2lt pump rebuilt.

One more thing, can injectors from a 2l-te engine be used on the 3l engine?
(with and without the turbo installed)

[bryanisaoldgit]

what bit of the pic are you on about

[danielsprague]

I'll take your advice and get the 2lt pump rebuilt.

One more thing, can injectors from a 2l-te engine be used on the 3l engine?
(with and without the turbo installed)

If you mean the 3L engine (2.8) then yes, if you mean the 1-KZ engine (3.0) then I think no, though I am not sure as I've never owned a 1-KZ.

These mechanical injectors are shimmed to open at a particular pressure. You might want to have them checked, and see if the specs are different between 2L-T and 3L.

[xfman87]

If you mean the 3L engine (2.8) then yes, if you mean the 1-KZ engine (3.0) then I think no, though I am not sure as I've never owned a 1-KZ.

These mechanical injectors are shimmed to open at a particular pressure. You might want to have them checked, and see if the specs are different between 2L-T and 3L.

I was meaning a 3l 2.8 sorry. I have a wrecked 2lte which im taking the turbo set up off to put on my 3l hilux.

I have a 2lt pump to use. I was just wondering whether 2lte injectors can be used on a 3l non turbo and a 3l turbo setup.